What If 'Normal' Was Never Safe? | Lisa Gerardy

Most people think ‘normal’ means safe—but what if your version of normal was built on trauma, chaos, and pain? I’m talking to Lisa Girardi, author of Chasing Normal, who survived abuse starting at just two years old and spent decades unlearning everything she thought was love. Lisa’s story will challenge everything you believe about healing, relationships, and the lies we tell ourselves to survive. If you’ve ever wondered why you keep attracting the same toxic patterns or questioned if healing is even possible—this episode is for you.


Lisa Gerardi was sexually abused at age 2 by her step uncle

>> Tiffanie: Why does it always feel like sometimes we are trying to chase what is normal? That is exactly what we are doing today. On today's show, this is True Crime Connections. I'm Tiffanie, your host, and today's guest is Lisa Girardi, who is the author of Chasing Normal. Love the name of your book. Love it, love it, love it.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Thank you. It's what I've always been doing. There are other Chasing Normal books, actually, so it has the long subtitle, but, yeah, it's, a. I think it's a concept people relate to.

>> Tiffanie: I think we can all relate to that, because there's so many times we don't even know what normal is.

>> Lisa Gerardi: No, I, I, I don't think anybody does right now.

>> Tiffanie: Well, definitely not now. But, yeah. And it totally makes sense, though, because your journey really started at age two. So, I, mean, that's literally your entire life.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah. Yeah. And I've always remembered. Did you want me to talk about that, or.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, go ahead.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Okay. I was, first sexually abused in age 2 by my teenage step Uncle Norman. Hate that name. And I've always known about it. It's not like I had therapy, and it was, like, kind of teased out of me. I've always remembered it. And I tried to tell my grandmother, and she said, we don't talk about that. And I didn't tell anyone until I was eight. And then nobody did anything anyway, so. Yeah. So, I. For the longest time, I thought I was normal, but, you know, I got to my 20s and, you know, lost my ever loving mind and realized I wasn't. Right.

>> Tiffanie: Well, then you also found yourself being abused by your mom's boyfriend, right?

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yes. Yes, Rod. My mom was a cute young divorcee. She worked with lawyers and doctors. But she chose to date a, married, alcoholic, abusive security guard. That was who she chose. And she kept him for seven years. So he started probably around the time I was 11, coming over when she wasn't there and stuff like that, and I told her about it. And then she took, like, a year to break up with him.

>> Tiffanie: Wow.

>> Lisa Gerardi: And he would beat her. He dislocated her jaw a couple times. She would never press charges. I called the police. She would not press charges.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, it's like how it kind of, like, follows you. I see that with so many of my guests. Once it happens to you, it's almost like there's a neon flashing light.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Uh-huh. Yeah. Ah. I, I would always say, do I have a tattoo on my forehead or something? You know, like. Yeah, no, It's. And then, of course, you know, I didn't have good relationships. Stop. Like, throughout, I thought, oh, this is fine. I'll just get over it. It's fine. Everybody's fine. I'm fine. You know. No, I wasn't. I wasn't. I've. I've drink that much now. But definitely alcohol was a crutch throughout my life, my young life especially, you know, because it, it turns off that anxiety you have, you know, as a, as a survivor, I guess. Right.

>> Tiffanie: Sometimes I wonder if it escalates it. You know what I mean? Like, we all dream to because of things.

>> Lisa Gerardi: It's relaxing.

>> Tiffanie: But, as I've gotten older and wiser, I was like, I don't think it's really doing that.

>> Lisa Gerardi: No, no. There's a whole hangxiety concept, which is, oh, just this past weekend, I met a friend for brunch and she was all, you know, frazzled. She has anxiety and does not take medication for it. But, you know, I'm a pill pusher, so. And she said, I think it's the wine. I drink a lot of wine last night. And I said, yes, that's exactly it. When you drink a lot the night before, you wake up and you have this sense of not only, what did I say that was stupid? Or what did I type on Facebook, that was stupid now. But, you know, your body is just like, all, What is happening? You know, I was feeling good, now it's all gone.


So, yeah, it's definitely. It makes sense. You're like, discombobulated

So, yeah, it's definitely. I didn't mean to blabber on like that.

>> Tiffanie: No, you are fine. It makes sense. You're like, discombobulated. So your body doesn't know what it wants. What's it doing?

>> Lisa Gerardi: None of it.


Grace has been married to Chris for 20 years

>> Tiffanie: So are you in a healthy relationship now?

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yes, I have been with Chris for 20 years. Well, it'll. We met, Our first date, rather. Let me speak English now, was, on Martin Luther King Day in 2005. And then we were married by October 15, 2005. We had bought a house together in April of 2005. So if you were watching this, you would have thought, this is going to explode. This is crazy. Is she pregnant? Like, what is going on? But no, we're still together. We both work from home all day and, you know, nobody has tried to kill anybody or anything like that. It's just very mellow. The one thing I will say about our relationship is, you know, I grew up, even though it's a long time ago now. I'm 53, but I grew up in an abusive environment all the time. And when he. He'll get hurt by something I say, and it's like, it takes me a while to even understand that. Like. Like what? What do you mean? Oh, that hurts. You okay? I mean, I guess I'm in such a still to this day. Like, as long as nobody's hitting each other or, you know, nobody's being raped, it's all fine. You know, I've really had to teach myself not to be so sarcastic to people, you know, because, I don't get it sometimes. Like, it's not that I'm a sociopath, but it's just like, what? This is great. We got a great house. You got these huge dogs. Why are you upset? Right?

>> Tiffanie: Do you think it's, like dark humor that you're doing or.

>> Lisa Gerardi: I have very dark humor.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Sometimes when I think of something funny, I will run it past my son because he is the only person that is as close to dark as I am. And if he says, ooh, mom, yikes, then I know, then I know. It's no. It's a no.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, like, that's important because when you're used to such, like, chaos and then you actually get to calm. It's a learning curve for both people. It's. It really is. Because they have to understand how to deal with you, and you gotta understand how to deal with them because it's just. It's not what you're used to.

>> Lisa Gerardi: No, not at all. Not at all. To me, he comes from like, a upper middle class, normal family. But, you know, getting to know the family. There is no normal, really. His mother was someone, who, as we used to say, started speaking seagrams at 3:00. You know. Yes, Bourbon, I think. I don't know. I don't know what it was. But she. She did start to speak Seagrams. So, yeah, that, And he said, you know, looking back, he now remembers that, yes, when he came home from school, his mother was already drinking. So nobody's really normal.

>> Tiffanie: Well, no, there's no such thing as normal. And I don't know if anyone would be able to even pinpoint if something was normal because it would be still abnormal to everybod else.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Right. We're like, oh, is that what we're supposed to be doing?

>> Tiffanie: Right? I mean, obviously she was trying to deal with something.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Uh-huh. Her own childhood. She told me when she was. People tell me things. You might have this face too, where people just tell you stuff. But she did one night, years Ago, she had been drinking and she starts crying and says she's a bad mother and her mother never wanted her and all this stuff. And I said, you're not a bad mother. You're not, you know. But, yeah, it was. It was weird because I didn't even think that she was going to like me when I first met her because they're, like, super Catholic and I am, agnostic on a good day. And I was a single mom. I thought she was going to tell me, get out. But no one said she. Yeah, I don't think she had my choice, I guess. Yes. No, Grace wasn't going to give her one.


Rogerson says generational trauma affects his family

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, I mean, it's so important, though, to be able to go through these motions and be able to figure out who you are. Did you end up doing any therapy or did you do anything to kind.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Of reattach here and there? When I was 19, my boyfriend at the time paid for me to go to group therapy. Was still living with my parents at the time. And my mom and my stepdad by this time, he. He never heard. And he. He didn't hurt her, hurt me or anything. And I told him, I'm going to therapy. And my mom, I don't know what planet she lives on. She's gone now. But what planet she did live on because she was like, oh, I hope you find peace, Lisa. Like, really, like, you have no clue. And later in her life, she used to tell people I didn't date when Lisa was little. Like, really, Rog? No, you don't remember that?

>> Tiffanie: Isn't it crazy how they forget? Like, that is a prime example, though, of generational trauma. And they don't, like, they. They mask it or they don't want to remember the things that they did. And it's probably for their own protection, you know what I mean? Because I'm sure there's things I've done that I don't remember doing. But it's a way that we try to protect ourselves.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah. And you said generational trauma. That's definitely my family. Because my mother's mom. My mom was like it in the. In a Child Named it. Have you read that book? It's basically. Oh, it's a good one. I mean, not good happy, but basically, her mom was kind of shitty to my Aunt Carol, her older sister. She loved Uncle Johnny, who I never met because he died at 16 in a farm accident. And she really doted on my Uncle Jimmy. My mom was it. My mom got her lunch money stolen. My mom needed a new jacket and she told her, wear Johnny's old jacket. So she's, you know, going to school in her dead brother's jacket with no lunch money. And my mom complained about the toothpaste or something, so my grandma grabbed her and scrubbed her teeth with Comet. So all my mom's teeth were bridges and then later dentures because she scrubbed the enamel off. So my mom was probably thinking I did a good job compared to that, you know, she probably thought, yeah, I didn't scrub her teeth. Right.

>> Tiffanie: I mean, when you have something like that to compare it to, you're like, well, thanks for not doing that, but.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Right, right. Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: But that might also make sense to watch abuse. When it's something that you're used to, it's hard to get away from it for sure.

>> Lisa Gerardi: I didn't keep in touch with my brother, and he's passed away now. My nephew told me that my brother was very abusive to him growing up, but not his sister. Never laid a hand on the sister, but to him he was very abusive. And then I have heard the sister, my niece, I guess I don't keep in touch with any of these kids. They're a grownups now. Was in jail for beating her daughter until she was unconscious. So it's definitely learned and goes down and down and. I don't know. You could talk to my son. He'll tell you, he had a great childhood and I make good cookies. I think he's forgetting some things, you know? Okay, I'll take it.

>> Tiffanie: I love cookies. Yeah.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah, I do make good cookies. Okay. Is that all I have to do?

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. I mean, that's good, you know, I mean, throughout the years, I'm sure we all make mistakes.

>> Lisa Gerardi: My.

>> Tiffanie: My son does like to hold on to some of them. I'm also a gen product of generational trauma, so I get it. Landed me in a few abusive relationships, you know, that's what is your so called normal.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Right, right.

>> Tiffanie: You have to stimulate that.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah, yeah. You have to, unlearn all of that. I think I learned normal per se, from friends, especially in high school. I was friends with more of like the preppy kind of good kids, you know. And so I go to their house and I notice that their parents were nice to them. I was like, whoa, this is. This is like TV in here, you know? This is. This is not. I mean, isn't your mom mad that you're home? Don't you have to do a bunch of chores? No, I'm, just gonna watch TV and have a snack. Are you gonna get in trouble for that? Because I had to, you know, dust, vacuum, whatever, as soon as I got home.

>> Tiffanie: Right. It's an eye opener.

>> Lisa Gerardi: That's why.

>> Tiffanie: I mean, some parents won't even let their kids have friends because then the cat's out the bed.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.


What advice do you have for parents dealing with troubled teens

My mom let me have friends and she did lose her crap a couple of times in front of them. There are a couple of friends. Carla, she's a vet now. When we were 15, my mom was driving us to the fair and she had a minor fender bender and she lost it. All the profanity coming out, and I just grabbed Carla and said, we'll just walk the rest of the way. And Carla still remembers that too.

>> Tiffanie: She's scarred for life. Yep.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Her parents were from Mellow.

>> Tiffanie: I guess that would stick out then. Yeah. So since, like, you've seen it go down so many different generations, what would you tell somebody that is going through.

>> Lisa Gerardi: The same things, that is being abused or is trying not to be an abuser? Well, both. yeah. I mean, books were great for me and, and my husband too, because Sergio, his stepchild, is his only child. So when he was 13 and starting to get difficult, we, we read books because we didn't know what to do with any of this because we were like good kids. You know, we just, we had wine coolers. But I mean, this was marijuana. This was another, you know, so it's funny. Yeah, I mean, I, I learned from other parents for sure, talking to other parents and, and books and books and books and talking to my son like he's a person and not just this thing I have to manage. And he's always been very, very bright like that. When he was five, he got thrown out of preschool. And I was a single mom and I was like crying and I have to go to work. You can't get thrown out of preschool. So I took him to a psychologist because, the preschool woman said he's like a sociopath. He doesn't feel remorse or whatever. And so I took him to the psychologist and she said, so on most things, he's average, but on abstract thinking and verbal abilities, he's off the charts. So he will argue you into a whole. This is the person, this is the kid you say. Because I said so too, and I don't tell people that. So, yeah, he's not a sociopath. He's like me. We don't show our wounds. We don't have feelings in front of others. So it's not that we don't have them, it's just you're not going to see them. Right.

>> Tiffanie: Do you wish that you did show them sometimes?

>> Lisa Gerardi: I mean, I have shown a lot in the past. Like currently I'm not very touchy feely. Part of it's cuz I take Prozac, which I believe should be put into the water system right now. But yeah, I've. I've been like screamy yelly crying and all that. But it's, I've learned obviously from actually from one of the parenting books. Yes, your teen is crazy. It's called that you have to be with teens. You know, you can't be screamy yelly because they, they love that you're giving them what they want. So you have to be dispassionate cop. So I got used to being dispassionate cop with, with Sergio, with Richie when he was younger. I don't use his real name in the book, but so I got used to being like that and I. That's how I was throughout. He's 28 now, but that's how I was throughout his teen years, kind of. Well, I'm sorry that you're upset about that, but these are the rules instead of why did you come home late? You know. Right.

>> Tiffanie: I was always told to pick your battles because if all you do is scream, they're just going to tune you out.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.


Your book starts with the abuse and then goes through finding normalcy

>> Tiffanie: So is your book kind of like your life story or. Tell us about your book.

>> Lisa Gerardi: So it's, it's. I'm gonna write another one. It's. It's not my whole life story. It is the abuse. Finding a normal relationship arc, if you will. So, it starts with the abuse, which some of my close friends will not read it because they don't want to know about it. And then it goes through, you know, finding normalcy, you know, starting out really in this dark place and watching my mom be in dark places and finally coming to the point where I. One day I just, I woke up and said, you know, you could date someone who does not need to be fixed. Not neutered, but fixed. And so I, that's when I met Chris. Well, I, I already met him, but that's when I agreed to go out with Chris because I was like, he's, he's not like an alcoholic or he's, he doesn't seem to be abusive. He's not very like alpha male. Yeah, I could do that.

>> Tiffanie: That's another thing. Like we always want to fix people and Instead, we need to look at ourselves, ourselves and fix ourselves so we can find the right person instead of exactly finding these people that are so broke. Broken beyond what we are. You can't take somebody that's way broken than you and think that you're going to have something healthy. It's just not going to work.

>> Lisa Gerardi: No, no, not at all. No. Way before I started dating Chris, it was after I met him, but then later, it's kind of a Cinderella story. We met at speed dating, but Lisa being Lisa, I got hungry, and the bathrooms were gross. So I left early because I was like, I'm gonna drive through McDonald's. Forget it. I'm out of here. These guys are looking over my head looking at sports on tv. I'm done. So in a small amount of time, I talked to Chris. We determined that someone who worked with him at Chico's had a son who was in my class at a Montessori school. So, you know, I just. I didn't think anything of it. Went home, got my McDonald's. Two months later, when school starts, that woman's there going, chris Girardi wants to see you again. And I was like, well, I'm seeing someone already. The alcoholic. I'll stop there. But I was seeing him. And so after I finally got my wits about me in three months and got rid of him, then I said, okay, I'll meet you for lunch on Martin Luther King Day. And so that's it.

>> Tiffanie: I think you're the first success story from speed dating.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Really? I have a good friend who met his wife in speed dating.

>> Tiffanie: Really?

>> Lisa Gerardi: But she didn't have him on her list. She had scratched him off. But they're married. They've been married, like, a million years.

>> Tiffanie: That is funny. Then how did he win her over?

>> Lisa Gerardi: I don't know. I don't know. She said it was because she didn't like his horrible green shirt he was wearing or something. Yeah. They have four children. Yeah. So it must be going okay.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, I would imagine.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah. That's fun.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. Girls, we can't be that picky. Or guys that you're gonna X somebody over color shirt they're wearing.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Right, right.

>> Tiffanie: We should be more concerned with more serious issues.

>> Lisa Gerardi: For sure. Yeah. Like, Chris and I have similar beliefs on, you know, political and religious and stuff. And I think that's very important. I know friends who are married to people who vote differently and stuff. And I. I don't think I could do that. Like, I don't understand how that works, you know? I think you have to have like the important things in common and those would definitely, you know, rule over, you know, looks would be more important rather than looks or clothes.

>> Tiffanie: Right, right. It's just funny to hear because I mean, there's times there'll be like a huge red flag right in front of us and we don't look at that, but instead you're like eyeing their shoes or you know what I mean?

>> Lisa Gerardi: Right, right, right, right, right. No. Yeah, my first husband was very. He still is handsome for his age, but it was such a wrong relationship. But you know, he was tall and had dark hair and you know, he's good looking and funny. So. Yeah, we never talked about anything deep. That should have been a sign. Right.


Your book might need a trigger warning for some of the chapters

>> Tiffanie: So where, if somebody wanted to get your book, where is it found?

>> Lisa Gerardi: it is on.

>> Tiffanie: I have one right here.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Here you go. It's on Barnes and Noble and Amazon and other places. There's a hardcover, paperback and ebook. And the audiobook's coming. I'm working on that.

>> Tiffanie: In your voice.

>> Lisa Gerardi: I swear in my own voice, not AI.

>> Tiffanie: Swear, funny. Well, is there anything else that you wanted to add?

>> Lisa Gerardi: I don't think so. Like, kind of. No, I don't think so.

>> Tiffanie: I've heard nothing about the book or anything that you want people to know.

>> Lisa Gerardi: That'S in it or, duh, pictures. So if you're like me and want to go straight for the pictures, they are there from the 70s and 80s. So that's something about the book. If you were abused, and I have a note up front about it. I have minimized the. It was more graphic before. So I have taken out things that are really graphic. But it might, might need a trigger warning, I would say, for some of the chapters. And I do have a sense of humor. humor is a coping mechanism. So there are some funny parts too, if you can, if you can believe that we go from childhood sexual abuse to laughter. It does. Somehow.

>> Tiffanie: I get that a lot of times we sit and laugh on my show because it is, it's therapeutic. And once you get to a certain place, you can kind of be like, what in the, fuckity fuck, you know what I mean?

>> Lisa Gerardi: Right, exactly, exactly. And you laugh, but it comes later, like not during. Like I can now semi laugh about my endometrial biopsy I had in December. But at the time it was not funny. you know, it was very painful. But now it's like because Chris was in there and he would inadvertently squeeze my hand whenever the painful part was coming. So then I Knew the painful part was coming. So then I was tensed up more. And then when we're done, he said, oh, no wonder it hurt. You know that thing we cleaned the bathroom drains with? That's what it looked like that they were using. I'm like, that explains a lot.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, a little bit.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Little bit.


Did anything ever happen to your uncle? Was. No charges ever filed

>> Tiffanie: I did have two, questions that I just thought of. Did anything ever happen to your uncle?

>> Lisa Gerardi: Was.

>> Tiffanie: No pressure. No, charges were ever.

>> Lisa Gerardi: No, no, no. No charges. What happened? He was staying with us in Florida. He lived in Illinois at the time. When I was 8. When I was 2, it was in Illinois. So the only thing that happened, he was, like, 17 by that time, and my mom sent him home, and that's it. And then from what I hear from my cousin, other little girls had said, you know, that he was doing these things. He had his own children. He never touched my cousins. I think he knew their father would kill him. And he died in, I think, 20, 21. He. From what I hear, he was a big alcoholic and drug user. I think he died of, like, liver disease or something. In his 50s.

>> Tiffanie: Gotcha. Wow.

>> Lisa Gerardi: I know karma.

>> Tiffanie: yeah. Oh, for sure.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Probably trying to mask what he was doing. I mean, you know that's wrong, right?

>> Lisa Gerardi: Oh, yeah. How could you not? I wonder what his father did to him then. His father never did anything to me. He was a grandpa to me. But, you've got to wonder, where is he getting this from? Because boys tend to repeat the behavior, whereas girls tend to drink themselves silly or have an eating disorder or, you know, rationalize their boyfriend hitting them. You know, we don't tend to. And some of us do. Mary Kayla Turner. But, you know, some of us will abuse children in that way. But I did not. I never understood that. Right.

>> Tiffanie: No, me either. Absolutely not.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah. Yeah. I don't get it at all.

>> Tiffanie: And I'm glad I don't get it.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Right. Yeah. No, no. When I, When I was, like, 28, 29, I taught at a high school. It was an alternative high school. And I was cute back then, you know? And a couple of the boys would come up to me and go, do you want to go to the prom with me? And, you know, hey, Ms. Petty, I'm 18 now. And I just would tell them, I'm not Mary Kayla Turno, and they would say, who's that? I'm like, you got Google. Figure it out.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, my God. That's crazy.

>> Lisa Gerardi: No, I'm not doing it.

>> Tiffanie: And do you have any kind of relationship with your Mother now.

>> Lisa Gerardi: He passed away in 2019. At that time, we found out she'd had dementia and she was hiding. And, so my son saw her two months before she died. He was down in Florida visiting his dad. And he went to her apartment to help her change a light bulb. And he said she was just. He was crying, telling me this. He said, she just said so many horrible things about you, mom, that you were a bad mother and all these things. And she hates that cherry water. And I'm like, it's okay. Don't worry about it. It's her disease. And he's like, I'm so sorry I didn't stick up for you. And, like, it's okay. It's okay. And then a couple months after that, his father, who was local, that's who the cops called. When they found her in her apartment, it was like her mail piled up, and the mailman said, we need to do a check on her. And the cops went in, and she'd probably been gone for a few days. They said, They told me to get a Hazmat team before I went in there. So. Yeah. So my ex husband called me. He was crying, and I just felt bad that he had to be the one to tell me this because we've been divorced for a million years, and he still has to deal with my family. And then my son was in Ohio. We had, like, the half floor down to the basement. He was in there, and he. I went down to tell me, and he just looked at me and said, is it Grandma? And I said, yes.


Jan says she knew her mom had dementia because she fell a lot

And he goes, okay, I need to be alone. So, yeah, I knew that's how it would happen because we tried to move her. Chris can't understand why I even spoke to her, but it's because my brother wasn't around ever, so I was her only kid.

>> Tiffanie: Oh.

>> Lisa Gerardi: And we tried to. We tried to buy her a condo. She backed out at the last minute. And so I just told my son, we're just. We're going to get a phone call one day because she won't let me help her.

>> Tiffanie: And that's what happened. Mm.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yep.

>> Tiffanie: The shame that your son had to go through that. Like, that's not what you need to put on a child, but. Oh, yeah, clearly she wasn't in the right mind.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah. No, no, she. And she tried to hide it. I could tell a little bit. But.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, my dad was just diagnosed with that Lewy Body dementia, so. Oh, that's.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's what my mom had. I mean, they just knew she had some kind of dementia because she fell a lot, like always, throughout her life, she was always a follower. My stepdad, he was 20 years older than her, from Boston. You know, Italian, World War II veteran. I loved him. He would be like, Jan. You'd trip over a matchstick, Jan. Like, you know, kind of. Right. at the time. But, yeah, looking back, that was probably a big sign that, there was something wrong. Right. Yeah, she had a couple of concussions, so.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, dang. Yeah, she. She fell hard.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She didn't mess around with the falling. That's why I wear flat shoes and stare at the ground when I walk. Right.

>> Tiffanie: I hear that. I'm too tall. I have to work.

>> Lisa Gerardi: All right, well, yes. She always have. Anything out? No, I'm good. Thank you.

>> Tiffanie: All right, well, then.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: I want to thank you for being on.

>> Lisa Gerardi: Thank you for having me.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely.