Trapped in His Delusions From Romance to Horror | Emma Jean Rowin

Emma Jean Rowan writes When Things Collapsed about her tumultuous relationship

>> Tiffanie: The story that we have all heard way too many times. A perfect relationship starts as a dream and it ends as a nightmare. I am such a wonder of the true crime connection. Is Emma Bean to hear her story. Dream that runs like a nightmare.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah, no, that's. No, that's an accurate description. Hi, I'm Emma Jean Rowan and I'm the author of When Things Collapsed. My story starts in 2014 when I was grocery shopping with my kids and I got a call that changed everything. I received a call from my former father in law letting me know that my estranged ex husband had become an active shooter. And that moment really forced me to confront a past that I had long tried to forget. A past that was filled with love and fear and confusion and emotional abuse. And in my book, I share the complicated journey of navigating that relationship that started as a fairy tale but then ended in chaos. And it's the story of that journey. How I got into the relationship, how I moved through it, how I got out, and how I finally found the strength to rebuild my life from there.

>> Tiffanie: When did you meet your husband?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: I met him in college. So it was actually my final year. I was a super senior. I was in the summer before my fifth year and we met at a party and it was the kind of thing where in summer you just only had about 100 kids who stayed and did summer classes. And so my roommates and I were there and we met that evening and we kind of traveled in different groups. And I don't know that we would have really been matched up before in any other circumstance. But because of the summer, we met. And I was immediately charmed and really impressed by him. My roommates were impressed by him, and it just kind of all clicked into place right at once. It really did feel very idyllic, very just kind of the kind of romance that, that people just dream of having all kind of happened that evening at that one party.

>> Tiffanie: And it's something that we hear so much. And a lot of my guests will even say that that will continue up until they actually get married. Yes, that would happen with you kind of.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: There were certainly red flags throughout the dating process that I talk about in the book. And they're not, maybe not glaring red flags to a 21 year old who's, you know, out drinking and partying and, you know, everybody is immature at that age. And I think I kind of lumped those things in with just as immaturity. I also was going through a situation where I was about to graduate and my parents after 30 years were filing for divorce. And so I think that put me on uneven footing, and I wasn't going to be able to move back into my family home when I graduated because my parents were going to sell the home and all the money was in espera. So kind of during that really, really vulnerable point when you're about to graduate college and a lot of kids are maybe moving home for the summer until they get a job or relying on their parents to help them kind of get set up, that rug was really ripped out from under me. And I think it enabled me to kind of see him more as potential family and ignore some of those red flags that were happening.

>> Tiffanie: I think we all see the red flags, but we be willing make up with Houston, and circumstances do happen. You're going through a lot in your own personal space because you're dealing with a divorce, and divorce is very hard on.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes, of course.

>> Tiffanie: Now you want to chase that, perfect relationship.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes. And I needed something solid to really hang on to, moving into that transition of my life. And it just. I just think looking back, of course, I can see all of those red flags. He would be really volatile sometimes. We would be so happy together. But then one little thing would happen and he would break up with me, and I would have to kind of chase him back into being with me again. And I think that that kind of. It kept me really interested. Right. Because it was confusing. I didn't really know why is the problem you? Is the problem me? And so that really. It just kind of set a tone for me where I didn't really know where to land on things, but I knew I didn't want to lose him because of that first really, really ideal impression that I had had.


Emma Jean says after marriage things started to become more extreme

It is the chase. It is the chase. And. And I think that happens to a lot of. That happens to a lot of people. I think we get stuck on the idea of somebody.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, for sure. And then when they do show us these last, we either excuse them, we make other.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Or we're like, well, yes, yes, that's right. That's right. And you can do that right off a cliff if you do it. If you do. If you're. If you're pretty good at it. And that's essentially what I did. So I did end up marrying him. And as you said, it was after we were married that things started to become more noticeable. Things started to become more extreme. The reactions were becoming more extreme. I was disappointed a lot in the way he was behaving, and he. He was just becoming More and more volatile all the time. And his mental health was sort of spiraling. He had become a very, very successful professional and he had made a lot of money. And so we were starting with this ideal beginning. And then when our first child was born, almost immediately things went from looking like they were so bright, like we just couldn't lose, you know, we both had these rising careers and this beautiful child. Very quickly there was a, there was a sea change and it started to spiral. And the boundaries of what he would say to me or, you know, the next insult or the next kind of fit of rage would get more extreme each time as we went. And. But by that time I had quit my job to be a stay at home mom. So I was no longer on that career path. I didn't have the financial resources anymore. And that gave me, I think, less, say, ultimately less. Less opportunity to push back.

>> Tiffanie: For sure. I've been there as well. I was in a. Where I wasn't allowed. So for you to be able to leave especially. And I had a newborn.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: You gotta go.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah. It's very isolating, isn't it? Especially if you're having a lot less interaction with people on the outside, which means you're not bouncing things that are happening to you off of people. And for me, what compounded that was having my family. We had, we had moved away from both of our families, so we didn't have our families nearby. We still spoke to them on the phone, but I wasn't in an office bouncing off people every day, you know, oh, what's wrong with you, Emma Jean? Oh, I'm upset because my partner did this. I was really isolated. And I think that is when sort of the, the spinning perspective started to happen for me. And I started to kind of become confused about, is this okay? Is this as bad as I think? I never really. I never really had good footing for how to judge him.

>> Tiffanie: well, especially when they can change their personality.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: Minute they are again Prince Charming.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: And then they turn into. It's like Mr. Jekyll is perhaps.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah. To see it myself.

>> Tiffanie: And when it was. It was so good.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes. Yes. And that is one of the things that I now discuss with, Especially with my daughters. And it's. And it's relevant for our sons as well. But, you know, a lot of people will ask, do you think that the good times with him were true? Do you think that he really loved you or was he manipulating? And I have said before, I have, that's probably the question I've asked myself the most. I do think maybe. I think I knew him pretty well, and I think there were good years, and I think that those good years may have been. There was some truth of that. But what I tell my girls is if you're. If someone's good side is really, really good and their bad side is really, really bad, you have to let go of both. And there's. There's no. There's no point in ruminating over whether or not their good side was real. It doesn't matter. As soon as someone is making you unsafe, that. That's it. Those are the boundaries. I think that way now, after many years of therapy, after having gone through this, I know that I need to think practically about things instead of leading with my heart. But at the time, I think I was somebody who could see sort of the. The broken person in there and wanted to rescue and wanted to fix. And I think I thought that was kind of noble of me, but really I was just putting myself in. In danger, and I was putting myself in a position where I was losing my identity. Yes.

>> Tiffanie: and that it takes a long time to refine that identity once it.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah, absolutely. Because they're chipping away at, ah, kind of your favorite things about yourself and maybe especially targeting those things about yourself that give you autonomy that. That maybe you like to do just little things. Like, for instance,


Your husband shamed you for your body, your education, your intelligence

Oh, here's a really good example. From really early on, we were dating, and I would guess we'd only been together a few months, and I came out for a date in a red shirt, and he said to me, oh, you don't look good in red. And red is the color that. That women wear when they want to say, look at me. And really liked red. And I really liked red on me, but I didn't. I never wore red again for that length of time. And I don't think I bought a red shirt or a red dress or anything like that for the next 15 years. So it's just little. Little pieces. Taking away little pieces of your identity. Is that kind of the experience that you had as well?

>> Tiffanie: For the most part, mine was just a lot of, like, shaming for my body, my love, education. I mean, they were every little.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Realizing, unfortunately. Yeah.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah. Well. And people like that are. Tend to be very adept at knowing exactly what things to go for it. In my case, it would be, you know, maybe he had sensed some insecurities that I had about this thing or that thing, and when he was angry with me or Wanted to control me. He would pinpoint those very things. Well, if someone says out loud the things that you wonder might be your flaws, that's really, really hurtful. Because then you think, well, it has to be true. And I think that. I think abusers, I think narcissists prey on those. Those insecurities all the time in people.

>> Tiffanie: absolutely. Because they know then they have you.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes, yes.

>> Tiffanie: Else is going to want you. Nobody else is this. Nobody else. And it's just like, well, d***.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes, yes. And in my case, my husband was really intelligent. He was. And that was one of the things that I loved. That was the package of him. When I met him in the beginning, he was one of the smartest people at that university. And what happened is he, came to use that against me because he was very wise at history and economics and politics, where I was an English major and I was creative and I was into art. And so if it. When it. Especially when we started to go down the doomsday prepper spiral and get into all those conspiracies, it was very hard for me to argue against that because I didn't know the facts about, politics and the economy and things like that in the way that he did. I. I couldn't. I couldn't argue with him. And if I did, he would point out how stupid I was. And, you know, that, oh, you're upstairs and you read People magazine and, you know, kind of chipping away at those things about me. And, it would back you down. And you, you wouldn't then argue after that. You wouldn't then push back, Especially if there's a Marxist. You're not arguing with it? No. they'll say the sky is yellow to, To. Yeah, yeah, you're right about that. You're right about that.


After our daughter was born, things took a sharp turn

>> Tiffanie: So you guys were married for 15 years?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: We were married for eight or nine years. We were together four years before that, so about 12 years total. I would say the first year of the marriage was probably the best, I say, but probably a lot of people would say that, right? And then after our daughter was born, things took a sharp turn. And then by the time our son was born two years later, he was well into that spiral of this conspiracies and the doomsday prepping. And it just really got worse and worse and worse from there. And I got more and more isolated from there. The things I was. I was allowed to do outside the house became less and less, and I still wasn't admitting to my friends and family long Distance, what was going on, because I wanted to uphold, his reputation, because I just thought he was going to get better. I thought he was going to come out of it. But that's one of the things that I would tell people now if I could have done something differently, I would have been honest with my friends or with my mother early on. Because if you're not telling people on the outside and on the inside, your perception is getting skewed, then you're at risk for not seeing things for what it is. And as soon as I did begin to tell, just little snippets to maybe a family member or. I remember my group of girlfriends, you know, late one night, I, I told them, you know, these are the conspiracies. He believes this, and these are the things he calls me. And I remember seeing their faces and just in, in leaking the tiniest bit. The tip of the iceberg of what was happening to me. And seeing their reaction. I learned so much about how wrong it was. And I don't think I knew it. I don't think I had that perspective on it anymore.

>> Tiffanie: You probably just didn't realize how deep down the rabbit hole it was. Really.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes, yes. Well, because I was able to put a nice little package on it. Right. If, if, if he was thinking something strange or researching something strange, well, then he's just this really eccentric, intelligent guy. There's a fine line between the people who are really, really intelligent and eccentric and harmless and the guys who are spiraling towards mental illness and also maybe taking their. Trying to take their spouse with them into that darkness.

>> Tiffanie: Right. Because they want you to conform.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah. And he was highly insulted. Anytime I, Anytime I didn't agree with him.

>> Tiffanie: Was he, like, building bunkers and,

>> Emma Jean Rowan: He was stockpiling doomsday stuff, so I didn't see all of it to begin with. he would receive these packages which were. I believed it was camping gear because he was into camping. He was always into that kind of stuff from the time we met. So he would receive these packages, and the labels looked like it was camping stuff, you know, And I, I didn't see all of it. I was busy with our kids. And he would take them right downstairs to the basement. Well, when I was pregnant with our son, I did walk in on him kind of taking an inventory of it one time, and I was shocked. I called it my Lifetime movie moment because it. I had no idea. I had no idea he had acquired all of that. I, I'm talking about, like, military, grade supplies and MREs and things like that, but then also kind of an arsenal of weapons, things that we would only need if we were going to be living off the land, cold weather suits, things like that. And it was a shock to me and he would downplay it a little bit when he would see my reaction. But ultimately he started to let me know that I, I think that we're going to be in an Armageddon soon. And so I had to somehow learn to live a life with someone who believed that that was right around the corner.


It's difficult to make compatible choices with a healthy spouse or co.

So I want you to imagine if your partner. Well, imagine if you imagine if you think that the end of the world or an Armageddon situation is coming within weeks or months, how much, how, how are you going to respond when your wife says, hey, let's go buy plane tickets to Jamaica to go with our friends? No. How are you going to respond to wanting to watch, you, know, get a TV or, or make any kind of purchase really? Because all of our money needed to go towards these goods. And he didn't really believe we were going to be having a life of any substance after that. So anything I wanted to purchase or anything that I wanted to set up or plan was frivolous.

>> Tiffanie: Right. You were planning for a future. He was planning for army.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: That's right. That's right. That doesn't make for compatible decisions. You think that it's difficult to make compatible choices with just a healthy spouse or co. Parent with a healthy spouse when maybe you were raised this way and I was raised this way. If somebody has a very different worldview and they're not expecting to even be in this house tomorrow, you can't, it's. You're not compatible to do anything. And then there were the, there was the paranoia. You know, we couldn't have a cable box because he felt they were spying on us. And, you know, we couldn't have anything. We couldn't. Our children. When my children were born, he would not allow me to register them to get Social Security numbers. So that was something I had to do after I left. I had to go through, I mean, my kids were, I mean, they were school age. I had to go through and, and have them go through that long process of, applying for Social Security numbers for them when they were maybe, I don't know, they were probably six and eight maybe. Yeah. And if there was anything that we had to sign up for that needed a Social Security number, that was too bad. I had to leave the, leave it blank on the form and hope they wouldn't say anything or we couldn't do it.

>> Tiffanie: Did he let you have them in a house?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: He. Yes, I have. They were born in a hospital, but we were not allowed to do any immunizations. So when you give birth, the first thing I think they do is the vitamin K shot. and I can't remember what vitamin K does. It has something to do with, maybe an infection or something that can happen that go. Come through the eyes when you, when you give birth. and he stood by our children in the nursery to make sure they didn't give them that shot. And I think I, I fought really hard for them to get the polio vaccine, I think, but they're like the measles, mumps, rubella. We were not allowed to do that. I mean, they, when, when I left and I started to kind of manage their medical care the way that I wanted to, they were very far behind on vaccines and it took that, you know, they can't just give them all to you at once. So we would have to go in every few months and get these and these and these. And my poor kids were getting multiple shots every time they went to the doctor. And, and you know, they, they didn't enjoy, didn't help how they felt about going to the doctor, you know, whereas most kids are getting those things when they're infants. And. Yeah, so, no, we, we, we were. And I also had, I had a pediatrician initially with our first daughter, but then his, his views changed and he became very anti vax. And then we had to go to the only doctor in the area who would, who was okay with not doing these vaccines. And I think it was 40 minutes away and it was like a, it was a homeopathic do, which I have no problem with, but it was just, it was just very, I was, I was making choices and having to, to choose things very differently than I would have had. I had actual say in, you know, had I done it myself.

>> Tiffanie: Right. And then you're scared of the repercussions if you were to make a wrong move.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes, yes, they went to a private school. We had a religious exemption on vaccines. the, it was a very small school and I had to bring my own water in for the kids because he didn't want them drinking the fluoride in the water. I had to call and ask them about their, their routers. What kind of, what kind of, was it a, was it a wired underground cable for their, for their Internet or were they using wi fi because you Had a port. Horrible problem with WI fi. Believed it. The government was going to use it to spy on us. And so I have to make these embarrassing calls to the staff and ask them, you know, can you. Can you look under your desk and just tell me what. What does your router look like? And does it have a wire? And here are these jugs of water. My children have to drink this water. It was a really strange existence.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, mad.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: So when you first met him, he wasn't like this, though. He probably had some of the conspiracies, but not like. Like this.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: I don't think he had any conspiracies. When I met him, he was really knowledgeable about things that college students weren't really knowledgeable about. So, you know, if you went to a party with him and, you know, kids are talking about, like, music or movies or girls or whatever, he would be talking with his fraternity brothers about history and the world. But I thought that was great, right? I wanted an intellectual man. I thought he was really sophisticated. And I think that it had it stayed that way, that would have been okay, right. Leading up to him being a successful person. And I. I, liked. I liked that richness and culture that he had about him. He read a lot. At some point, someone at work handed him a book on international conspiracy, I remember, and it was a big book. And he brought it home and had started to read it. Now, do. I think most people wouldn't even pick it up. You know, they'd say, thanks for the book and, you know, whatever. He got really into it, and it was like he was just. He was just smart enough to grasp easily what they were talking about and make these connections. And he really went down the rabbit hole after that. And that's when things really started to change. He had found Alex Jones on the Internet, and he was reading that all the time and really scouring for conspiracy theories.

>> Tiffanie: Very interesting. I, I mean, I know there's people out there that do all this stuff, but I. I would never imagine actually living with.


My husband believed that the economy would collapse and he would be prepared

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: If it's gonna happen, hey, everyone's gonna want to come to your house. You're prepared. What?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: That was what he used to argue with me. You know, I would say, you know, I don't. I don't want us to have a third car garage that's filled with, these barrels of. Of food and all of these things that I don't think we're ever going to use. And, I don't want to live where we can't have A cable box. And he would say, when this goes down, that's why my book is called When Things Collapse. Because that was what he would say to me all the time. When things collapse, you're going to be really glad. And there was also this narcissistic element to it because he believed, he almost, it almost seemed like he wanted for this Armageddon to happen because then he would be ahead of everyone. Then everyone would know how smart he was and how he was. He, he would say, I'm going to be the last man standing. And it kind of this grandiose idea of what the Armageddon would, the position it would put, put him in. And so we were living life on that trajectory and I wasn't believing in it, which put us at odds all the time.

>> Tiffanie: Right. I mean, that's hard. And he kept his job through, he.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Kept his job throughout all of it. He, they, they began to question some of his theories initially what he was doing because he was, he was, he was really good at his job. Initially what he was doing worked well because the markets would go one way, but he would have all his clients money and sort of these, these other, these other things that would go up, but it never really went how he said it was. And over time I think people started to become skeptical and they became frustrated. And once I left, he did end up losing his license. And I don't really know the ins and outs of that. I just have kind of seen that online that that had happened. But that was when he went, moved from our home, which was, you know, a half million dollar home in a metropolitan area, to where he ended up moving when he began shooting at his neighbors. And that was a completely different type of living situation than you can ever imagine or than I could have imagined When I actually had to go there after all of the shooting and retrieve his things and set foot on it. It was much, much worse than I could have imagined.

>> Tiffanie: Wow.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: What was your last straw? What made you say, okay, like I can't be anymore?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: we were living in our home and I think my son was maybe three at the time. And I had a place, I, a rocker. I would sit in a little glider that I had, you know, from when I had babies. And I would sit up there when he would be yelling at me or when he'd upset me. And I would go upstairs to be away from him and I would rock and I would sit in that glider and my son would play around me while my daughter was at preschool. And one day My son came up to me and noticed me crying and said, mommy, why do you. Why do you sit in your sad chair all the time and cry? Is it because my daddy yells at you? And it occurred to me in that moment, oh, he does see what's going on. This is affecting him because I had the mindset I have to stay here to keep my family intact for these children. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna do what my parents did, you know, I'm not gonna divorce and upset them in that way. And in the same day, we were driving to pick up my daughter, and he was screaming at me on the phone in the car, and she could hear it. And I remember her saying to me, oh, Mommy, I'll go inside and I'll. I'll act really, really cute so he won't be mean to you. And again, it was like this. Two in one day realizations of this is changing their lives. She's starting to adapt to how he's treating me, and she's almost becoming an enabler of it, trying to protect me, but trying to maneuver her own ways around his anger. And it was that day that I said, okay, I. I've got to get. I've got to get them out of here. And it still took time after that, but that was when my thinking started to change. Because I knew in those moments, one day, some man is going to mistreat my daughter and it is going to feel like home. And that was for me. Maybe I didn't have enough love for myself to get out of it for myself. And I would have tolerated more and more and more, but for my children, it wasn't good enough because I loved them very much and I expected the best for them. And it just. In that moment, I was blindsided. You're not giving them the best. You're setting them up to live the same way that you do. And that's. That's not enough. That's not good enough.

>> Tiffanie: I love that because that is so important. I stress that because you do. You think, oh, well, we're going to have a better life because this person is around and they can help me more financially or, you know, all the different reasons why you want it to work, you want children to have a full family, but when it comes down to living like that, it's actually quite exactly. They are going to grow up and think that's normal. And then they're either going to do it to their children.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: Or they're going to be abused and.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: You seal their fate. You seal their fate by your example. And I wanted to seal their fate in a good way. And so, very soon after that, maybe, I think, maybe even that day, I think was the final time that I said, you get out. And of course for me that meant I had to go back into the job market. I had to worry about whether or not my kids were going to be able to stay in that home because it was an expensive home and ultimately we did have to move out. All of the things that I feared circumstantially were going to come true did come true. And you know what? It was still okay. I just had to accept them piece by piece. You know, yes, my children are going to lose our family home, but we're going to move somewhere else and we're going to, we're going to be able to have cable where. And I'm going to be able to parent them the way I want to parent them. And you know, it just, it is, it's, it is grueling to turn your life upside down. And I think that's why a lot of women say it's never a good day to turn your life upside down. And I remember that feeling and I remember how it kept me there. But I would say to anybody in that situation, you will go through a year of difficulty, you know, getting back on your feet, you know, if you have to get a job, if you're a stay at home mom, you know, making ends meet and just rebuilding. But after that, and even during that, there are so many flashes of good and so many things that will remind you that it's worth it. You know, being able to set up your home the way you want to, being able to make decisions about what you wear, starting to do the things that you liked to do again, and, and remembering who you are and those things are going to reward you while you're going through that hard part. And then you come out on the other side and it's okay.

>> Tiffanie: For sure. Anything new is going to be hard.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Ah, yes.


Man began shooting at cars on rural county road; luckily no one hurt

>> Tiffanie: That's just life as you m. Maneuver more into it.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: you said it right.

>> Tiffanie: The more you maneuver into these ways that, you know, it's going to make it easier in the long run.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah, absolutely.

>> Tiffanie: Made him tick against his neighbor.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: I, I don't really know. What the sheriff had told me was that he believed that he, he started to, he had moved out to this really rural space. And when I say rural, what you're thinking of is one thing and that's not it. This is rural this is people having tires as fences, hardly being able to pass by on the roads and like living in little plywood buildings that they've built themselves. And I think out there he became even more isolated and probably bought in more and more to his own worldview in those years after I left. And then one day he started to believe that the county road that passed by his property belonged to him. So anybody who drove by, he began shooting semi auto automatic weapons at. And he shot off, I believe they said over 3,000 rounds that morning. And by the time they called me and were trying to, I got a call from his, from my father in law telling me, you need to call the sheriff. They want to know how dangerous he is. What kind of guns do you remember he has? Because they were going to go in and get him. He hadn't hurt anyone, but he had shot at their cars. He had shot even when the sheriff went out to take a statement from a neighbor, he had shot at the sheriff to tell you how skewed his perception. If he believed the world it was, he believed it was happening. He believed this was the collapse. And I think he believed it was kind of like the Wild West. We're not, we're not obeying laws anymore and stay off my county road. When we went out there days later, there were bullet casings by the thousands just everywhere. and fortunately he did not end up hurting anyone. They, they did go in and obtain him in the evening. They had blocked off the road. But if you saw how many rounds he had shot off and how they were just scattered everywhere, you would, you would be very surprised that he didn't hurt anyone. and the neighbors, because this was such a rural, rural area, were telling the sheriff, we're going to start shooting back. Was it was. I mean it's not funny. It's not, it's not a laughing matter. But it really, it was bizarre. It was a bizarre incident. I think they were all very confused by it. Nobody really knew what exactly had triggered it, but it seemed like there was some sort of a mental break that had caused it.

>> Tiffanie: excuse me, that is frightening. Did you see driving down a road and then next thing you know your car is being.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: Why? By who?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: End.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Game. Yes. And to read the newspaper reports, it was something, you know, people would say, oh, I was, we were driving with my family and a man stepped out of a hut and just began firing at us. m. Some people did have damage, you know, maybe if like tree limbs had fallen on them. And maybe damage to their cars, but luckily no one was hurt. but I'm sure that for them it was a very scary and hard to understand situation.

>> Tiffanie: How long did he do this before they came? Like, was it a day or a two day if you're shooting?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: You know, I don't know how long it took for the people to call the police, but I know in the article it sounded like he had something about, he had fired off thousands of rounds across over the morning. So, before they were able to block off that area, he had done quite a bit of shooting. And then he continued, I think the road went quiet because they had probably blocked it off, you know, on either side. And maybe he didn't know that. And then they came in in the evening and they said that when they went in he put up a huge, huge commotion and he didn't, he didn't go easily. But they were able to obtain him without, without being harmed.

>> Tiffanie: I mean, that's good. I wasn't sure if maybe they would have had to shoot him.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah, well, that was my concern. And the entire evening I had kind of sat worrying, you know, what's going to happen, you know, and we didn't hear anything until the very next day. So they did take him in that night, but we didn't hear until the next morning when I called what.

>> Tiffanie: Had happened the take all his barrel.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: No, I was tasked with going to get all of those and it was sort of a barter that we did at the time. We had five child for a step parent adoption, for my, my second husband to adopt my children. And he, he had not received that paperwork yet. And I will tell you this part, it was, he, he had not, he was out and free and had not done any of this shooting incident when we'd made that decision and filed it. And we were in the midst of waiting for him to receive the paperwork when this shooting happened. So when this happened they put him in custody and he was, filed that paperwork while in custody. So he couldn't retaliate, he couldn't come and hurt us. And he didn't come to any court dates because he was in jail for the next three months.

>> Tiffanie: Right.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Which was, he didn't, he didn't, he was in jail. it turned out that they had served the warrant incorrectly. So he, he's free.

>> Tiffanie: That is terrifying.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Oh my. I mean, so he did all this prepping, spent all his money on equipment and barrels of food and then just left them all at your house?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Left them all at his. At. He had taken them to the place where he was living. and so we had to go and get all of those things for him while he was in jail. That was sort of our, our agreement that exchange. Yeah. Good.

>> Tiffanie: Lord. Well, hopefully he stays open.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah, yeah, that's. That's the hope. That is the hope. So it was, it was quite. It was an eventful time. And you know what, though?


You say you tried to get your husband evaluated for mental health issues

My, my. The stepparent adoption did go through and, his parental rights were terminated and my life with my children is. Is as happy as it could possibly be. And with my. And with my husband. And even though I. I don't wish for what happened to us to happen to anybody, it gave us a lot of perspective and we are really grateful for the things that we have and for the peace we have now, the.

>> Tiffanie: Way at least it turned out. Did they end up doing like a mental evaluation?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: No. And that's something I learned about the process for helping people who have mental health troubles in our country. While he was in jail, I multiple times contacted the sheriff's department and said, listen, this is. He did not start this way. There's been something wrong for a long time. I haven't been able to get him, you know, because he's paranoid, in to be evaluated. This is a good time when he's in custody, take him in to be evaluated. And, I just don't think they took it seriously. Maybe because I was his ex wife, but also because I don't think that there was a big conversation around mental health, especially in that rural area. But just in general, I think there are a lot of people in prison who probably are. You know, I know there are a lot of people in prison who are mentally ill. And that's not to say that if you're violent, you shouldn't be in prison. But I do think that there are interventions that can be done. And I don't. I have no way of knowing whether it would have helped him or not. But we did try to get him some help, but just kind of to no avail.

>> Tiffanie: He has weapons. That's one thing that you could have on your side, because if you are, you're found.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: You can't have them.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Those. Yes.

>> Tiffanie: Won't, you tell anybody that might be going through some similar situation?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: I would tell them that. That they're not alone. I did have a woman reach out to me after she read my book recently and say to me, I have known other women who have been through domestic violence situations. I have never known Someone who's had this doomsday prepper element. And I told her when I was going through that, I used to wonder, is there anyone else? There have to be, right? There are other doomsday preppers. I. You know, are their wives okay with it? I think some. Yes. I think some kind of go right down that rabbit hole with them. But I knew there had to be women like me who were having their lives turned upside down by something that they didn't see coming when they. When they got together with their partner or, you know, their husband. I would tell anybody who's going through this that there are many other women like this and that you. You need to talk to people about what's going on. You need to. Don't hide it. It feels embarrassing. It feels like a dark secret. But you need to talk to the people you love about what's going on so that they can show you through their faces how very strange that is. Because a lot of it becomes normalized to you when you're in that situation.

>> Tiffanie: All right? And if the only person that you're talking to is telling you, this is the way it's gotta be, like, this is what's coming. You have no tg. No outreach.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: No. Yes.

>> Tiffanie: Yes.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: And I. I'll tell you this. I did have a sense that a lot of the things were overboard. You know, the WI Fi thing, a lot of them started to become almost like sci fi. And I. You know, I. I knew those things were not real. But the things he would talk about economically, that he foresaw coming, or political things, I didn't really have anything to hold that up against. I didn't have a ton of knowledge about that. And I was isolated. And some of those things he would. Scared me. I would think, is that. Is that going to happen to our country? and I guessed that it wouldn't. And now here we are, you know, all these years later, and those things didn't come true. And I'm not a bury your head in the sand kind of girl either. I do want to know. You know, I do think that there's corruption out there, and I. I know what. I know what goes on. You know, a little bit of what goes on. But I don't. I didn't have a good sense of how to read him and. And how to know if what he was saying was something I really should. Should be concerned about until I was out, and then I could watch the news and really make my own judgments.

>> Tiffanie: Well, I mean, yeah, it's easy to fall in line when you have nothing to compare it to. You can be like, wow, this seems a little far, or have the back to say, you know, to counteract it.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: That's right. Yeah, that's right.

>> Tiffanie: Well, I am so happy that, he's not out of that.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes, me too.

>> Tiffanie: I'm happy we have not gone in the Armenian.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. Yeah, yeah.


So your book is on Amazon. It's available in paperback and on Kindle

>> Tiffanie: So your book is on Amazon.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: Barnes and Nobles, all those.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: It's just on Amazon. It is, available in paperback and on Kindle.

>> Tiffanie: Perfect. To get a hold of you. Maybe someone who is kind of going the same thing. Where's the best place for them to reach?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: On Instagram. I am a jeanrowan, and I answer my messages through there. So they can contact me through there and I will respond.

>> Tiffanie: Well, was there anything else you wanted to add?

>> Emma Jean Rowan: That's all. I appreciate you having me on the show.

>> Tiffanie: Of course. This.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: This was an interesting one. My story. My story's not boring, for sure.

>> Tiffanie: And I appreciate you being here. I'm. I know somebody out there can connect with it even.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: that far.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes.

>> Tiffanie: There's going to be things in here that do connect with you.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: Yes. And that's who I really hope to reach by telling this story.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. We're not alone.

>> Emma Jean Rowan: No. No. All right.

>> Tiffanie: Holy s***. We did it.