From Incarceration to Inspiration - A Life Transformed | Shaun McClure

Sean McClure has been in the justice system since the age of 14

>> Tiffanie: Sometimes we turn our whole lives upside down without even knowing why. And sometimes it takes us to hit rock bottom to be able to turn it around. I'm Tiffanie, your host, True Crime Connections. And this week, joining me is Sean McClure. Sean knows all about turning your life around. So, Sean, I want to say welcome and thank you for being here.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great. Great to be here.

>> Tiffanie: Of course. So you were in and out of the justice system since the age of 14?

>> Sean McClure: Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Quite a while. Yes. Almost 25 years worth. A long time. yeah. Yeah. I've only had an estimated four years as a free adult.

>> Tiffanie: Wow.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. Ah. In those terms, it's m. MySpace was created and fell while I was incarcerated.

>> Tiffanie: I used to love my MySpace.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, I've never even seen it.

>> Tiffanie: Very good. I mean, this has to give you a whole new appreciation for life, though.

>> Sean McClure: It has, especially on this last. Since I've been out this time, I have a whole another viewpoint on life and where I've come from, where I'm.


When you were 18, you went into prison for a violent crime

>> Tiffanie: Going while you're doing this. Because when you were 18, you went into prison and clearly you were. You were there for a while. So I'm guessing did you, like, do some research because you started to realize that your childhood had a lot to do with where you were sitting.

>> Sean McClure: It took a long time. It actually took my second go at teaching myself psychology. That really broke it through for me because I was able to look at it and I was looking at child development and all these things that we know that affect us and how they are, affect a child. And we can predict what's going to happen to that child by what's been in his life, whether it's alcohol, drugs, abuse. We can predict where he's going to go in life. But my second girlfriend's like, well, why doesn't that apply to me? You know, so because I had all my most of my adult life, I thought I had the average childhood life and honestly, you know, and that it didn't affect me at all. I didn't think my childhood had any effect on who I was or what I'd been doing. But once I examine that, it's like, all right, well, it's not normal to be molested. It's not normal to see your first murder. At 12, my mother's attacker, we left one abusive boyfriend in California and ran to Arizona. And then the man that she ran with abused her one night to the point where, when I came out there, he, choking her on the ground, he's trying to kill her. And I ran out there and yelled at him and he came after me. As long story short, she got the gun and killed him. And then it just went on from being bullied mostly. It was just so incessant. I was a social pariah and all I do is fight and I, and when I say fight, I would never start it. I was just, I didn't have any way of coming up with a comeback. I was not, I was not witty. So I just ball it up, ball it up and wait till he pushed me a few times and then I just let loose and, and all hell is breaks loose. And that's how at 14, my first arrest was for beating up a 19 year old man who was bullying me. I put him in the hospital, he pushed me and pushed me attack. And I just, it wasn't about skill, it was about not losing, about not letting that person have the upper hand on me. I just go town. I hurt him pretty bad. But I was only 14 and he was 19. I went to jail for that one. And then it wasn't. Six months later a 21 year old who is picking all my other friends came after us and I beat him up. And I got arrested for that one too. And after that it was just the eyes in the system from that point. I mean, they never asked me anything about my past and I never thought about my past. And it took a long time to really figure out how it affecting me, you know. And it comes down to cognitive dissonance. You know, it really skewed my values and my. What, what was acceptable in my eye?

>> Tiffanie: Well, when you grow up watching your mom be abused in the violence that does become a norm, it's almost like, well, this is what everybody lives through. Right. Like you don't realize that the people next to you don't live that way. Or nowadays they might have too. You know, that doesn't make it normal. But if you talk to other people and everyone's kind of got the same thing going or whatnot, it's normal. It's not until you take a step back and be like, oh, this isn't normal.

>> Sean McClure: Well, and then they really tried to address any issue. So after the murder they did cemetery counselor, that didn't really work. It sounds really wrong, but from a child's point of view, my counselor had bulbous eyes. Have you ever seen or descended eyes. Have you ever seen people like that where their eyes stick out really, really far?

>> Tiffanie: Yeah.

>> Sean McClure: And as A kid. I couldn't, I couldn't even look at her. It sounds bad as an adult, but as a child, it's like I couldn't even look. I felt bad. I was like, where do I look? I mean, so I couldn't even talk to her about it. And not to say that I even would have, but it's definitely a, ah, difficult situation for a child. No.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yeah. Can't lie.

>> Sean McClure: Nope. no.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, I, ah, could get that. It might make you uncomfortable. You should have said, can I get a different one?

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's the thing. So growing up, I didn't have anyone advocating for me and I didn't advocate for myself. I grew up in the era where you do what adults tell you and you don't talk back. And I didn't. So every time I got in trouble, even though I'd be like, I didn't start it, I didn't just like, no, you're in the wrong. You made the choice. What do you mean I made the choice? I was defending myself, you know, but I couldn't advocate for myself on that. And, the same with. I know how, how the molestation really affected me because I went from this. So I understand it's vastly different for a female versus a male. It doesn't make any, any less worse or any less effective. And what it did for me is. Made me really, seeking that because I went from the, the peak of sexual prowess at 6 years old, 8 million years old, to being a social pariah and being a virgin going into prison at 18. So I know that. And that that's the first, one of the first realizations on my, on my mental health is I, I, started realizing, why do I keep going back and forth? It's women. And I say that jokingly because actually what it is, it's that codependency is seeking that relationship, seeking someone to share with, seeking intimacy. And then for someone like me, the only way to do that is to get drunk, get high, go someone into those circles where there's easy people now, easy women that are seeking the same thing that, you know, they're all got their own codependencies. They're seeking shelter, they're seeking strength, they're seeking whatever they're seeking. So it's just one, you know, mess of, emotions and drama that's not good for anyone. It leads you back down the road of drugs and alcohol.

>> Tiffanie: Right? You're trying to mask it.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, yeah. And that's. So that's one Thing.


I've been out three years and I haven't been with a woman

Sorry. if. If seeking easy women is one of my reasons for going back to alcohol and drugs, well, I need to raise my class of woman, you know, so. And that. And that's worked. I mean, that really helped out a lot. So once I started doing that, I was like, all right, if I need a better woman, about the woman that I envision, what would the man be like that she would want to be with? If I, you know, I can't expect this woman if I can't be that man? That's the way I've been trying to live my life and change my values in that way.

>> Tiffanie: I love that. I do. That's right.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like. So I do a lot of volunteer work. I do all this stuff, and I want a woman that's fit. I want a woman that does the volunteer work. Is she going to want a guy that's laying around playing PlayStation all day? You know, a guy that's not keeping his word, you know, that's not the type of guy she's going to want to be with. So that just gives me higher aspirations for myself.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. And you attract what you do. So, I mean. Exactly. If you're out going to these dive bars, so many people will go to these dive bars and I can't meet anybody. It's like, do you want to?

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. And that was it. So I know to get off in this tangent because it's actually part of my, my mental health and part of what I've got going on is like, I. I've been out three years and I haven't been with a woman because of this, because I raised my standards. So the few women that I had had a chance to be with intimately, I haven't, because I don't want a woman that's going to be with me on the first night, you know, because I. And it could happen that way, it could be good. But generally, from my experience, people that are intimate on the first night are automatically in a relationship from that point forward. And you don't even know that person, you know, And I don't want to be tied down to that. I don't want to be tied down to their drama. I got so much other things going on. So being really patient is really hard.


Nami credits Toastmasters for helping him change who he is

And that's actually what my, my topic is tonight is kind of like an anti Valentine show, you know, trying. Trying to learn that I gotta accept myself, you know, as, enough, you know?

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. And that's good because you can just go into the same Patterns and being molested as a child can really send you into two different ways, kind of. It can send you into your walk in the streets. You know, you could have been a male prostitute. They are out there. It could have gone so many different ways. So the fact that you're actually not, trying to be a male whore, you know.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, yeah. I just, I'm so, I'm tired of the same old thing. You know, it is a constant battle. I've changed who I am in the past three years. You know, just since I've been out, I've changed. Now I learned, I'm learning things. I'm able to cycle and analyze myself a lot better. And actually when I went to my first two to three times in, I thought, for lack of a better, I want to use the term. I was, I was in remedial classes in high school. They had me. I, thought I was slow. even though I finished my GED when I was 16 four hours early and got college level scores, I still thought I, was mildly going in as educationally. About six years into it, they did an IQ testimony and it's actually, I'm on the other end of the scale and they just, they weren't teaching me right. And that's when I, because then immediately when I got in. I've always been a peer facilitator of some sort. Ged, tutor, typing tutor, plumbing tutorial, some sort of peer. And I thought I was just faking it because those are the good paying jobs with the good benefits. And in a way I was, but I was also on the job training and it turned out that I thrive in these roles and a lot of it's thanks to Toastmasters. You know, we actually had a club in there. Have you heard of Toastmasters? Are you familiar?

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sean McClure: So, yeah, there's, that's a huge part of what I'm doing now because they had a club in there and I got my, my first certificate when I started my first 20 year sentence and I just. Now I won't shut up.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, it's not a bad thing. You have a message and you want people to hear it. I mean there's so many people who are going down the same walk that you did.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. and that's the whole reason I, I want to show that there's hope because I've been on the streets, I've been one of the, I've been in the gutters, you know, usually not for very long. I usually, I, I'm pretty adaptable. So I can get off the streets, you know, but still, you know, living under someone else's house, couch surfing or something. But I went from that to now I'm the president of my non profit. Have you heard of Nami? Mental illness. Yeah. So I'm the president of my local affiliate in Payson, where I did my first podcast. And I also teach an art class once a month called Creative Expressions.

>> Tiffanie: Congratulations. That's exciting.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. Yeah, it is. I marvel at everything I'm doing all the time. And it's just people have to believe in themselves. People are willing to help you out if you're willing to put in the work. And that's what it's about, grinding. You know, my radio show, I'm not getting paid for it. It's about the message and it's about grinding. It's about getting better at what I'm doing. It's about getting the message out there.

>> Tiffanie: Of course.

>> Sean McClure: And I'm loving every minute of it.

>> Tiffanie: Your stigma shift.

>> Sean McClure: Yes, ma'am. Yeah, and that's, that's the show that's on the night. Stigma. I love that. So. And that's, that's the other thing about the show is I'm learning, learning my tone, learning my voice, learning where are my message, how to key it all together and make it attractive to people, you know, and it's a, it's a really fun journey. And, Nami's helped me out a whole lot. One of the things, I don't know if you're familiar with Payson. Payson is like where everyone in Arizona comes to, to vacation. It's. It's the mountains. It's cool. There's hiking all over. There's trails, not a lot of natural beauty. And one of the things that we're doing at naming Payson is we're creating support on the trails and we're actually taking mental health support group and we're going to go hiking and. Yeah, that's going to be fun. I'm excited for that journey.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, that should be great.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. Ah. And then of course, my son. My son's a part of it all. My mother has my son. He's just turned nine. He does a little Spartan races with me. Physical fitness has been a big part of my journey. You know, I got my wildland firefighter red card while I was inside. And ever since then I just kind of been on this whole fitness and my son's gone along with me. He's awesome. Little basketball player, baseball player. I'm pretty sure he's gonna be taller than me. Yeah, I'm 6 3, 6 4, depending on what day it is.

>> Tiffanie: that's funny. Kidding.


You don't have to have a master's degree to start your own business

>> Sean McClure: On what date? That's it.

>> Tiffanie: That's. These are the things that you need. It keeps you going, it keeps you inspired. Same thing. Like with my podcast. I learned so much about myself that I don't know if I ever would have learned without doing this.

>> Sean McClure: That's a great. Yeah, you got to, you have to be able to absorb it and, you know, use it again, you know, share that knowledge. That's what's great about this world of technology that we live in.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. You don't have to be an expert. Like, you don't have to have a master's degree or anything. You just have to have life experience.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. Well. And hard work. You got to put it in. That's it too. So what, what really gave me the, the awareness that I could do whatever I wanted was the last time I was out. So I, I, I did 14 years in Oklahoma for stealing cars. And during that time, I was on a prison farm. I was on a cowboy crew. It was straight, like Yellowstone. We rounded up a horse, cattle on horseback, smuggled in contraband on horse. It was, it was not good because I was not good at that time, but it was a blast. But I got, I learned some really good skills. So I always tell people I grew up on the white trash side of country. All my families are cotton pickers and potato farmers out in California. And it wasn't until prison when I went to school for horticulture and I started this greenhouse, a huge culinary greenhouse for the farm. But my buddy got me on a horse, and they can never get me back off. And so for three years, I'm running these cattle. I'm, we're roping them, doctoring them, doing all this while I get out. And, I'm working for a trail ride outfit. And they fire me because they heard I want to start my own business. That's not really related. There's, it's just really the horses. So they fired me. So. All right, well, I'll start my own business just like yours then. And within four months, I had 40 acres, seven horses, a horse truck, two trailers, seven goats. And I started out with a truck of $400, and it was on the Oak Creek river outside of Sedona, and I was taking tourists on trail rides. And, and that really made me realize it's like people are, willing. People got people, have money. There's, there's people. Not everyone's broke. There's people that have money that want to invest it and if you're willing to put in the work and do stuff, that's right, they're going to help you out. And that's how it was with me. There's like, they're all willing to join in. And I had no experience. I'd only been working with horses for a few years as a natural, but only a few years. And so this time, right before I got out, I was like, look, I'm going to do things. And my buddy kept on Hollywood would call me how you know you're going to do this stuff? Because I'm just going to go do it. So people are going to, you know, they'll, they'll fall to it. They'll, they will embrace me as long as I'm doing right and I'm honest and I'm sure about what I do. And you know, I've got pictures with Paul, Pizone. He's the last sheriff of, of Arizona. And they've got yeah, Katie, Hobbs. Governor Katie Hobbs. I've met her, got to give her a certificate. And I literally, I've gone from the gutter to, to what I'm doing now. And I have no experience. I've been in prison my whole life. How could I have any experience even, even at work? I'm the, I'm the maintenance manager. How much of an education can I have? You know, I did some stuff in there. I, I did a lot of stuff in there. But it's just the ability to try new things, the ability to learn and the ability to grow it. You know, like today's gonna be like a. Yeah, I, I started at 4:30 this morning. I'll be done at 10:30 tonight. A long day, but that it is. But so that's part of my mental health I learned, you know, I think I'm pretty sure and a doctor agrees with me that I have undiagnosed adhd. And so of course I had it when I was a child. And one of the things I do was tear stuff apart and fix stuff and. But I need to be busy and that's one of the reasons I got in trouble so much. And that's also a key takeaway about mental health. Mental health isn't about making excuses for what you've done or what you do or the way you act, who you've been as a tool to make yourself better, as a tool to understand why certain things were acceptable, why you do certain things. And that's all it is. And that's why I'm constantly analyzing, the way I was, the way I am, the way I want to be.

>> Tiffanie: And I love it.


What would you tell somebody that's going down the wrong road with fitness

Yes. What would you tell somebody that's kind of been doing the same thing, in and out of jail or prison, just going down the wrong road?

>> Sean McClure: there's a lot. But number one is you have to do it for you. You can't do it for anyone else. I don't care if it's your child, your mother, your brother. You have to do it for you. And you have to realize that you can do it, and you have to keep your word and set goals. So one thing that, you know, I made. Fitness was one of my main mental health bulls. It was. I would not go back on. You cannot. If I said, my gym for the day, I'm going to get my. My, My gym days in. I may not get them in the days I want, but I'm gonna work out three days a week. There, There's. I don't care what else is going on. No excuses. I've got to get in the gym. I don't care. You know, I set these boundaries with my life that certain things have to occur for me to be a better person. And it has worked. And part of that, set goals and boundaries. I know there's a little more than just one thing, but, you know.

>> Tiffanie: No, but that's.

>> Sean McClure: They can do it.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. Make a schedule and stick to it, but don't make it like, oh, I'm gonna go to the gym every day to leave. Because if you don't ever go to the gym every day, like, at all.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: You're not gonna go every day. And then it's gonna, go by the side. So you gotta make it realistic.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. Small, realistic goals. Don't beat yourself if you, up if you don't do it. You know, don't use that negativity. All right, what do I need to do to make it a little bit better? How can I make this goal a little more achievable? And that's. And just, Just stick with it. And same with jobs. If I, like I said, I used to be the person, I say I could fake it till I made it. I. I thought I was. What's that, that show Catch Me if youf can. Leonardo DiCaprio. Yes. I thought I could be that guy. I. I've literally done stuff like that. Not to that level, but I was just faking. Like, I learned as I went along, I learned a whole New tactic. I tell people, I don't know nothing. I'll figure it out. And it works so much better because they're so happy when you get it done, and they're not as disappointed when you break it.

>> Tiffanie: I like that. Yeah, it makes sense.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, it works. It's just honesty. You know, one thing that, the biggest thing is honesty. I'm not gonna lie. And politeness. People hate it. But I say, yes, ma'am. Yes, sir, to everybody, especially the women. And I've learned a, key point. If you say, yes, sir, yes, ma'am, and a lady tells you, don't say yes, ma'am, don't say why. I say it to the younger ladies as well. I caught myself.

>> Tiffanie: Can only imagine what you got for that.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, the second time I. I was able to hit the brakes, I was like, yes, ma'am.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, my God. Yeah, I'm happy that you turned it around. And I hope you stay on the straight and narrow. Do not go back.

>> Sean McClure: No, ma'am.

>> Tiffanie: If anybody want to listen to your radio show, where do you publish that?

>> Sean McClure: So it's live in Pacing on 96.3 KREM FM. Or you can go to kremfm.com and stream it. I haven't been recording it yet. I've just busy, busy, busy. So I haven't really set everything up to actually record because I go to the studio in town, which I don't. I know a little bit of it. I'm fairly familiar, but I haven't just really messed with it because I got my zoom pod track that I could be recording at the same time, and I really need to get there. I just haven't yet. So now it's just live Thursdays at 8:00, Arizona time, which we don't change time zones, so you have to, Google that. But every Thursday at 8pm with that. No, no, we're not for all that. That just doesn't, make no sense. Us in Alaska.

>> Tiffanie: Actually, Tallahassee doesn't participate, which is weird because the rest of Florida does.

>> Sean McClure: But really?

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. We don't make any sense. Florida, none of us.


Arizona is one of those states I really don't desire to go to

Nothing here makes any sense.

>> Sean McClure: No, I. I, mean, really, though, that's not. That's one of those states I really don't have a desire to go to unless it's as a hopping off point to an island somewhere.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, well, we're talking about getting rid of it as well, and I kind of wish we do because it just. It's not fun.

>> Sean McClure: I bet. I bet it's nice down there. Right there.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, I mean, it's beautiful. I love it here, but, yeah, this is where all the crazy people come.

>> Sean McClure: Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm in a very rural community. I mean, six stoplights, I think we have, but, yeah, it's a real small town. It's up in the mountains. We get snow. We have elk running through the yard. Really large elk will come through. I was just watching, a coyote a little while ago. Javelina. But it's really, really beautiful here. This is where the zang. I don't know if you ever heard of Zane Gray, the author. He's a, western author. He used to live here. Everything's bigfoot. That's why, you know, my cub's got the bigfoot. Sasquatch. We gotta cater to the tourists to help us survive. But it's very beautiful here. We got waterfalls and lots of hiking.

>> Tiffanie: Very cool. I've been there once. I was in a, Little Rock.

>> Sean McClure: Oh, really? In Payton or in Arizona?

>> Tiffanie: Oh, Arizona.

>> Sean McClure: Arizona. Okay.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. And Paison is really cool because this town's really, really embraced me. Like, I'm actually renting the lower level. It's like two bedrooms and a. Some other parts. But it's the former mayor, the last mayor's house. He's upstairs. And then I've got city councilmans as friends, and members of the chamber of commerce. And, yeah, everyone in this community is just really like, all right, yeah, come on in. Yeah, let's see what we can do together.

>> Tiffanie: That's great, because everybody deserves a second, third, or fourth dance.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah. And that's another message, is like, you don't have to give up on your family members. You know, it's. It's hard. But it all comes down to mental health, Getting them to understand about their mental health, and, you know, things can change.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. Absolutely.


Sean Leftkin: There are so many people at rock bottom who are doing awesome

Was there anything else you wanted to add?

>> Sean McClure: No, I did a lot. You know, I know I get to talking about 100 miles an hour, but hopefully some of it will be understandable.

>> Tiffanie: I mean, I can understand you, Leftkin.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Well, awesome. I mean, I love the message, you know, don't ever give up. Doesn't matter. You mess up, it's okay. Get back on your feet. Try again. Don't ever give up trying.

>> Sean McClure: Yeah, yeah. there's a lot. There's so many people in my community alone that were at rock bottom who are doing awesome now. You know, we got Jesse Berry from Keep patient Clean. He struggled with addiction. He struggled with. With homelessness, and now he. He has his own non profit that's all about keeping our area clean. And then Emily, Emily and Skyler, she had a lot of mental health issues. She had drug issues, she had, you know, trauma upon trauma upon trauma. And now she founded the warming center which is this, the huge like soup kitchen. And housing in wintertime for, for people in this, homeless people in this community. It's gotten so much attention, it's getting million millions of dollars to make it bigger. Eli Crane stepped in. So all these people that have been at rock bottom are doing great things because they believe in themselves and they understand their mental health.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, sky's the limit. I mean everybody needs some help. So once you can identify a population and a need, oh my God, sky's the limit. Absolutely.

>> Sean McClure: Oh for sure. And, and everyone's willing to help you get to where you're trying to go, you know, nothing, nothing's, nothing can stop you. Except for, except for you.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah.

>> Sean McClure: No, don't wait. People always try and wait, you know, for the right time. The right time's never going to come. The right time is right now.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, I love that. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, when this happens, I'll do this. When I get more money, I'll do that. It's never going to be the right time. Just do it.

>> Tiffanie: Start it messy.

>> Sean McClure: Gotta do that. I do that. I do that. With making my bed and cleaning my bathroom, it's like, you know, just get it done. Might as well do it right now, you know.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah, yeah.

>> Sean McClure: That's what I put on my dating profiles. I'd rather show pictures of my bathroom than pictures of my d. If you're not, if you're not more impressed by that, we don't need to talk.

>> Tiffanie: That is hilarious. Oh my God. but, well, if anyone wanted to reach out to you, what would be the best way?

>> Sean McClure: That'd be stigmashift.radio gmail.com.

>> Tiffanie: All right, cool.

>> Sean McClure: and feel free to go to namipason.org check out all the resources we have there for mental health. We got, you know, even if you're in another part of the country, we have resources that you can utilize@namipason.org or you can go to NAMI national page, maybe go to anomy page and then you can kind of read the stories about us and our grass through this organization. It's really a great group.

>> Tiffanie: I'll go ahead and make sure I also add the links in the show notes so people can find it.

>> Sean McClure: Awesome.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. Well, I want to thank you so much for being here, Sean. Thank you.

>> Sean McClure: No, thank you. It was fun and.