Behind Closed Doors | Mia Hanks

"What if the person you love the most is also the one destroying you? Most victims of narcissistic abuse don’t even realize they’re trapped—until it’s too late. Mia Hanks spent 29 years married to a covert narcissist, enduring manipulation, gaslighting, and emotional neglect. Today, she’s here to expose the red flags and share the roadmap to freedom. If you’ve ever questioned your relationship, this episode could change your life. Stay tuned."


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Mia Hanks is a survivor of narcissistic abuse and author of book

>> Tiffanie: Why is it that so many of us find us in a narcissistic, abusive relationship? My name is Tiffanie, and this is True Crime Connections. I am your host, and this week I'm talking with Mia Hanks, who is also a survivor of narcissistic abuse and also the author of the award winning book titled Bride Made. So, Mia, I want to thank you for being here.

>> Mia Hanks: Thank you for having me.

>> Tiffanie: There you go. I was like, wait, what happened? You're good. I truly feel that so many of us can identify with this. But you were in this for 29 years. That is a lot time.

>> Mia Hanks: It is a long time. Yeah. You know, I was very young and, you know, I think a lot of us, we don't know, we don't realize what we're in until we're very far into it. And that was. That was my, my experience. You know, I think 30 plus years ago, no one was talking about narcissism or narcissistic personality disorder. It just wasn't something that was discussed. And so really, the not knowing, you just don't realize that it's a thing until you are really trapped. And that's why I think, you know, talking about this and education about this personality disorder is really important.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, it's super important. I know when I was going through it, these titles did not exist. You know, gaslighting, Love bombing, Narcissist. None of this was a thing. So once it all started coming out, it really made a lot of sense as to what I was really in.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, you know, these, these were words that were not used or discussed really, up until a few years ago. I was 21 years old when I got married, and that was over, you know, three decades ago. And certainly no one was talking about that. But also, what wasn't a thing was domestic abuse that wasn't physical. And so, you know, back then, when you heard about domestic abuse, it. It always equated to something physical. A psychological abuse. Mental abuse was just not something that was really, I think, accepted as abuse. So, at least for me, I think that's why it took me so long to realize, no, this isn't right. You know, I should not be living like this. But like I say, you know, you get so deep into it, you have kids, you're. You're in this, you know, you're. You're in the thick of this marriage. And it's not that easy then to unwind all of that and just walk away.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, for sure. Especially, I mean, we give so many Excuses as to why their behavior is the way that it is. And we make up just a ton of excuses. And that's when we have to stop ourselves because, because there becomes a time when their behavior is unexcusable and we will do our damnedest reason why they're acting this way. And it's just.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, definitely. You also have to say, I found constantly, making excuses and, you know, for, for his behavior. Right. I, I wanted everyone to think that I had it all together. And I think we, we, we want to give that impression. Right, that we, we don't want to have to admit something's wrong. And so for a multitude of reasons, it's easier to just go along with their behavior, make excuses for it and keep their, keep, their reputation intact because that's what they ultimately want is, you know, they don't want their reputation to falter. And so I found myself just coming right along beside my now ex husband, you know, keeping up this lie. He was a covert narcissist. He is a covert narcissist. And so to the outside world, he's this great guy. He's generous, he's kind, he's empathetic, he's caring. He's not any of those things. But, I was helping him keep this lie up just to keep our image intact. So it really gets complicated for sure.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, after a while it's embarrassing to be like, oh, well, this happened again, or now this happened when it, especially when it starts to escalate. Because I always tell, you know, my community that it will escalate even if it's something small. Now, name calling, destroying your stuff, these are just tip of the iceberg of what is to come. Because once you pretty much deal with it, they know they got you. Like, they can do anything they want.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. like you say, the, these little things, these, the little things end up being big things when you don't deal with them. And when you're with a narcissist, there is no dealing with them. Right. because they, in their minds, they, they don't do anything wrong. So you can't go to them and say, hey, you know, we really need to talk this out because, you know, this was very hurtful or whatnot. They will use gaslighting to flip that around and say, no, you know, it was, wasn't hurtful. You misinterpreted it. You, you're too sensitive. You, you know, you're remembering it wrong. And so there's just no, dealing with those issues, and then, like you say, they become bigger and bigger and bigger. And narcissism, it's proven that it does not get better, it gets worse with age. So that's another thing to keep in mind.

>> Tiffanie: For sure. I do think that the word narcissist gets thrown around a little too much, though. Like, the whole world can't be a narcissist.

>> Mia Hanks: No, you're right. You know, it's, it's. We want to call anyone who is overly confident or somebody who was arrogant or pompous. We want to automatically call them a narcissist. But that's not what narcissism is. In fact, a lot of narcissists are the COVID type that, they present as anything but a narcissist. So just because somebody's really confident, you know, that's a, a, character trait. It's not their entire personality, you know, so it's, it's a totally different thing. Narcissism is a, is a really serious, you know, issue, and especially narcissistic personality disorder. I mean, it is a real, like, mental health disorder. So, yeah, I think we need to stop overusing that word because, most of the time we're not talking about a real narcissist.

>> Tiffanie: Right. It's like, oh, this person cut in line. What, a narcissist?


I've dated two narcissists and both showed signs of sociopathism

Like, no, they're just impatient.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: There'S, there's different levels.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. And, and I've heard that narcissism is a spectrum disorder. so, which is really interesting if you kind of dive into the research on that. at the far end of the spectrum is, you know, like the most extreme narcissist, the next level is sociopath, and then beyond sociopath is psychopath. So, yeah, it is a spectrum. And, you know, I, I, People can fall at different places on that spectrum. But yeah, it's just at any, anywhere that you fall. It is a, it's an insidious, thing. You know, the, the manipulation they use and how they can really tear you, tear you down.

>> Tiffanie: I've dated two narcissists. Well, I'm pretty sure they both were. I mean, they both had the personalities to it, but they both also, like, showed signs of, sociopath in between the narcissism. So it's just, it's mind blowing how their personalities can change, and like, when they're normal, they're normal, but when they're not. Holy.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. you know, what I found was if, if as long as everything's going their way and they're getting their way and life is moving like they think it should move. They can be pretty enjoyable, right? They can be charming and they can be fun and there can be good times. but I think as victims, we get caught up in that thinking, well, you know, it's good now and yeah, it was, it was bad a couple weeks ago, but it'll get good again. But that, that is that roller coaster of a relationship that is not healthy. So, and keep in mind, they're only, you're only having these good times when everything's going their way. As soon as you put up a boundary or as soon as you say no to them, it's going to fall apart in just the blink of an eye, you know, and these people can, you know, they, they have just all out temper tantrums. So, in the least little thing can set them off and you just never know what that's going to be. Especially when you get into dealing with a narcissist who was kind of hovering on that sociopath, you know, into that at very end of the spectrum. it can get volatile.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yes. It took me years to rebuild myself after I got out of those relationships because their goal is to tear you down, to make you feel like you're, on the bottom of their shoe.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, that's, I mean, in their mind, that's. They win, right? If, if, if they can keep you feeling bad about yourself, keep you doubting yourself. That's how they control you. You know, it's just, it's all about controlling people and making, you know, I'm going to make you do what I want you to do and you're going to be who I want you to be. And so, yeah, they do, they will, they will completely take you apart to where you don't know who you are anymore. And that's, that's the struggle, I think, getting out of these relationships is trying to figure out who, who even am. I, I got married when I was 21 years old. So, you know, getting out of this marriage when I'm like, you know, 48, 49, I'm trying to figure out what do I even want to do. I don't, I don't even know what I, what do I like, what do I enjoy? I don't even know. because I had given up everything for him. So it's, it's sad. But it is possible to rebuild.

>> Tiffanie: Oh yeah. How long has it been since you've been out?

>> Mia Hanks: I got out about three years ago. And my divorce was a very lengthy divorce because I'm dealing with a narcissist. They. Divorcing a narcissist is not like divorcing a neurotypical person. So that was a solid year of just, you know, battling him through the divorce. And, so I've been out of that. I've been divorced now for a little over a year.

>> Tiffanie: I hear that a lot about my guests who also are divorcing narcissists, that it's one hell of a battle because they want to get their way. And it's funny because they do. It's like almost like a toddler. And they throw tantrums like you're this big bad person, but yet you act like a. In child.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, they. And, and, you know, it's all about. To them, it's all about winning. Everything's a competition. And divorce was. Yeah, I, you know, and coming out of this, I was kind of living in this fog, and I was saying to everyone around me, oh, you know, he'll be fair and it's all going to work out well and everything's going to be fine. And everybody around me is saying, no, it's not going to. This is going to be a fight. And I'm like, oh, no, it's going to be fine. But no, it was, it was pretty brutal. I mean, once they find out that, you know, you've left, you're not coming back, it's. They just pull out all the stops, you know, My ex husband, the first thing he did was drain the bank account, you know, so that I wouldn't have money to eat. And in his mind, he was perfectly justified in doing that because that was. It was like, either come back to me or I'm going to make your life miserable. And that's kind of where we landed, you know, so it was a fight for sure.

>> Tiffanie: And that's horrible. Especially, did you still have children to take care of or were they grown by this point?

>> Mia Hanks: Well, by this point, my kids were both grown. I actually waited to leave until my kids were grown. And so, you know, I didn't have to deal with family court and custody and all of that, which I. I've heard is a complete nightmare with a narcissist. So I, I don't have the experience of having to. To deal with that, but that did make things easier. But nonetheless, you know, divorcing a narcissist is. Is. It's a journey.

>> Tiffanie: Oh. I mean, I've never married one, but I can only Imagine what it's like to divorce one. But I have had other guests that had small children they still had to take care of, and they still would not give them any money. And it's like you're hurting a lot more than just the wife. You know, like, you need to look at the big picture, but they don't.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. And, you know, they just, At their core, they really just don't care. I mean, they care. They care about things that impact them and things that reflect on them.


It's hard to accept that people can really be this conniving and manipulating

So. But if it doesn't, you know, if it's not helping them at all, it's. It's in their mind, it's not worth their time. So it's hard to believe that somebody could really think like that and be like that. And I think that's what I struggled with for so many years because, you know, I was naive, and I thought, everybody was good in the world. And it's hard to accept that this is. This can be a reality, that people can really be this conniving and manipulating.

>> Tiffanie: For, people at home who may not know if they're in this kind of relationship.


What are some of the red flags that you saw about narcissists

What are some of the red flags that you saw?

>> Mia Hanks: I think the earliest red flag that I saw was that lack of empathy that all narcissists will display. You know, I noticed things like, for example, if I was sick, he wasn't sympathetic. He didn't. He wasn't concerned about me. He wasn't saying, oh, how can I help you? Instead, his reaction every time was to be angry. And I thought, well, that's weird. Why. Why is he mad at me? Like, I can't help that, you know, I. I got a virus or, you know, I've got the flu or something, that he would be napped. And the reason is because it just was. It was just a disruption to him. You know, he didn't want to have to deal with that. It just. In his mind, it was. It was just kind of like a waste of his time. Why do I have to. I'm better than this. so that was the first red flag that I saw. The. The lack of empathy. And I would say beyond that, just this general kind of uncaring about everything and everybody. definitely a red flag to look for.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yes. I. I've even seen that myself. When you have a need and they put your need to the side just to satisfy their own.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, they'll do it every time. I mean, because it's all about them, and they come first, and they're the most important. It's so interesting. for example, if you, you know, have an achievement, if you accomplish something, they will always downplay that, you know, like, oh, yeah, well, whatever. But if they do something, and it can be the tiniest, tiniest accomplishment, they expect this huge fanfare, you know, it's such a big deal. So they're just, they think they're more deserving of praise and adoration than anybody else. And it's. You get tired of that. And in my experience, I have to say, you know, I can describe this 29 years as just exhausting. It's exhausting to be around those people for so many reasons, but just. It'll just drain you dry.

>> Tiffanie: I can agree to that. Oh, my gosh. Like, I feel 10 times lighter being out of that. You're just always worn down. You, you got to watch what you say, you got to watch what you do. You got to watch pretty much fricking everything. And you're human. You shouldn't have to do that. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, it's exhausting. I, I would say that, you know, I had to think about five steps ahead all the time, you know, and I found myself even going as far as like, planning what I was going to say, you know, and thinking, well, what would his reaction be if I said this or if I said that? You know, you shouldn't have to plan what you're going to say. You shouldn't have to tiptoe around issues all the time. And, the other thing I can definitely say is in my marriage, I was stressed out. All this. I, was. And, and I hate that, you know, I hate that for my kids that they just had this stressed out mom. But I was stressed all the time. He kept me on edge. And the only time I ever could relax is when he was out of the house. So again, big red flags, Huge red flag. If you can't relax around your partner, you need to really examine what's going on.

>> Tiffanie: Right. I always usually suggest start a journal. And anytime you're not really sure, write down the date, you know, write down the incident. Because not only after a while do we forget things, but then we make excuses like we said. And sometimes you need to go back and look at that and be like, holy crap, look at this, this, this, this. And sometimes that is super eye opening.

>> Mia Hanks: That is a great idea.


Starting a journal after leaving your husband is a great idea

You know, I never did journal. I was just never one that was a journaler. It's interesting. When I was in therapy after I, after I left my husband I was dealing with a lot of guilt. You know, you have that trauma bond, more or less Stockholm syndrome. And I was feeling so guilty that I left. You know, I was worried, how's he gonna manage? And did I ruin his life? And all of this nonsense. But at the time, you know, I. I felt very concerned about him. And my therapist told me, she said, you know, you need to get out a pen and a piece of paper, and you need to write down every traumatic incident that you can remember and just make that list and then keep it. And then on days when you're feeling guilty about leaving, she said, I want you to go and take that list out and read it and remember why you left. And I did that. And. Wow. I would highly recommend. Yeah. For anybody who thinks they're going through this, start. Start a journal. Even if it's not, you know, you don't have to have lengthy entries, even if it's just bullet points, you know, of this happened and on this date, so that you can really go back in and examine this. Because we tend to want to forget these things and sweep them under the rug and say, well, you know, he was just under a lot of stress and next week will be better. And so that, you know, we tend to just want to forget them. But. But I think journaling is a great idea.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. Especially if he's just saying, like, really mean things. That way you can have it verbatim what was said instead of. Well, I think it was something like, you know, I look like a fat cow or something like that. If he says something like total, like, you have it, you have it. It's there and you won't frame. Forget it.

>> Mia Hanks: Right. Yeah, I think. I think we. We want to forget it. It's a survival, mechanism. It's a coping mechanism to. To forget. And. And I. You know, when I made that list after I left, there's probably a hundred other incidents, you know, that I have just kind of forced myself to forget. So you. If you don't write them down, you very well may, without even realizing it, just. Just kind of block it from your mind. And you need to. Yeah. I think keeping a list of those things and just seeing how. How often are these incidents happening, that's another thing, you know, look and see. I mean, is it. Is it on a regular basis? You probably need to examine that relationship.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yes. Any action that makes you feel uneasy, makes you cry, makes you feel any kind of emotion, write those down. Even if you want to write down the good times, just to see how Far in between they are. Or just in case you just don't want it all to be about, you know, what hell you're in, like, that's okay, too, but it's just. It is. It's really important to be able to go back and look at it. And God forbid, if anything was ever to happen to you, you should always tell somebody where. You can't keep this book. That way somebody knows where to go and look for it. Because people do crazy things, especially when they lose control. And if something happens to you, someone needs to know where to look.

>> Mia Hanks: Oh, I agree with that, too. And, and you're right. You know, when a narcissist loses control, that's when they become volatile. And so, you know, in any instance of, you leaving or divorcing, you know, you've got to be careful. You really do.


Do you feel safe in your marriage? That's a huge question

And another thing I would go back and say about, you know, the list and, and if you're, you know, feeling anxious, another question to ask yourself is, do you feel safe? You know, that's a huge. That's a huge question. You should feel safe with your partner, with your spouse. Right? And if you have feelings of, of not being safe, you probably aren't. You know, I mean, I think we, we. We tend to not want to listen to our intuition sometimes. We think we know better. But really, that's a question, that you need to ask yourself. And that's what I asked myself at the kind of toward the end of my marriage was, do I feel safe in this marriage? And my answer was no. And that was, you know, I guess one of the motivating factors that made me realize I needed to leave.

>> Tiffanie: You have to feel safe. This is your home. This is your life. You deserve to have a safe place, a sanctuary. That's yours. I, often tell, you know, my listeners that if ever it comes out that when things are good, they're really good, but when things are bad, they're really bad. Red flag. Get out.

>> Mia Hanks: Oh, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, with a narcissist, you're going to have good times. Of course you are. Not every day is bad. It really isn't. But, you know, it's easy to say. And that's why, that's why I felt so much guilt when I left. I said, well, not every day was bad. We had good times. But you know what? The. The bad times were too bad, and there was too much trauma, you know, so, yeah, you can have trauma intermixed with good times, but it doesn't Cancel out the trauma. Right. The good times don't cancel out the trauma. And you really do. I mean, it comes down to self preservation and taking care of yourself. And you just have to ultimately decide to choose you and your wellbeing.

>> Tiffanie: Yeah. Even if you need to make a pro and con list. What are all the good qualities of them? What are all the bad qualities? A lot of times you'll see the bad side way outweighs the good. That happened to me. And holy crap, that was an eye opener. Like, I'm talking, like, my one list was like. This one was like that. Like, oh.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. I mean, it's. I think we, you know, we. We want to lie to ourselves and. And think that it's not as bad as it is. I, I didn't realize till I got out how bad it was, you know, and. And I was. I just didn't know because you get into that mental fog, you know, with all the gaslighting and just the manipulation. It. You have to get away from it and get on the outside. And then when you look back, you say, oh, my goodness, how did I put up with that? Like, how did I live like that? And that's a question I ask myself all the time. Like, I can't believe I did that to myself. But, you know, I. I had good intention. I. I thought I was doing the right thing. You know, I. Society tells us that. That we keep our families together, you know, and we don't let our children be children of divorce. And all of this stuff, which I learned does not apply when you're dealing with abuse. So, you know, I thought I was doing the right thing. I had the best of intentions. But I look back now and think, I can't believe I, you know, I just. What was I thinking? In fact? And you get mad at yourself, but.

>> Tiffanie: You were just doing, you know, obviously you were trying to keep the family together. Maybe a part of you still hope that maybe he'd go get help or just magically wake up one day and see rainbows and. No. But.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. Another thing. Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: I love to. To speak about is the children get affected when you don't think they are because you're like, well, only. Only happening to me. They see what's going on in the house. They can feel emotions. They can see emotion. So sometimes it's better just to leave.

>> Mia Hanks: I mean, you know, that wouldn't have made sense to me in the middle of my marriage, but today I can look back and say, absolutely. You know, my kids, they only got to Witness a dysfunctional marriage. You know, they only witnessed dysfunction. Dis. Dysfunction was their normal. And you, know, I regret that so much.


Narcissists tend to be jealous of their own kids

But, you know, I, I guess, you know, the, the, the, the plus side, I guess if there is a plus side to that is they know what not to look for in a relationship. I mean, they're more aware of, of these personality disorders and, and whatnot. So. But yeah, it, it's. And a narcissist will never allow you to be the kind of parrot you want to be either, because they tend to be jealous of their own kids. You know, they want all the attention 24 7. So it's, My ex husband would sort of like pit me against my kids and basically put me in positions to make me choose, you know, is it me or is it them? and, and it just, it keeps you so stressed and so on edge that it creates a, just a stressful environment for your kids. So definitely it's not the best, and it's not in the best interest of the kids to stay. Leaving is, is much healthier in that type of situation.

>> Tiffanie: Absolutely. I mean, you also don't want them to grow up and either become abusers or end up in an abusive relationship themselves, because nine out of ten times that's what happens. That's what happened to me. So there's a reason why we end up in the situations we end up in, and it's usually something that we grew up with.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, I mean, it's important that your kids get to witness a healthy family dynamic. You know, it really does affect them. And like I say it, you know, it, it becomes their normal, and then you have to kind of untangle that. So, I mean, it's nice now that my kids are grown and we've gotten to have really good discussions about all of this. And, it's been, it's been really good. I mean, I, I think, my kids have learned a lot just from watching my experiences. And you know, I hope that they, like I say, I think they know what not to look for in, a relationship. And, they're very aware of, you know, their dad's issues. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it all, it all turned out okay, but at the same time, I wish I could rewind and, go back and give them a more carefree childhood, I guess, and, and that I could have been, you know, a less stressed mom.

>> Tiffanie: Right.


First thing I would tell anyone wanting to leave is start setting aside money

But since you successfully left, what are some strategies or tips you could give to somebody who is in this situation, wants to leave? And just does not know how.

>> Mia Hanks: You, know. The first thing I would tell anyone wanting to leave is start setting aside money. It seems so basic, but it will make a huge difference. And there are so many little tips and tricks you can use. For example, I like to say when you go to the grocery store and get your groceries, get cash back each time you go, if you can start setting aside a little bit of money at a time. Because here's the thing, it takes money to leave, and you can be sure that the narcissist is going to cut you off the minute they realize that, that you've gone. And so for that interim time where you're waiting to file for divorce, I mean, you need funds to live on, so definitely set aside money, set up a support group. You, a support system. You don't have to have a whole team of people. You just need a one or two people to be there to help you identify a place to go that's going to be safe. And, you know, just really take some time and plan and think this through. It's not something you do on a whim because you, again, you're not dealing with a neurotypical person. So you do want to carefully plan this out and, and, and above all, just be safe.

>> Tiffanie: Right. Definitely don't tell them your plan you've got. No, no, not a secret, because it can get really ugly.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, definitely, definitely keep all of your plans to yourself. I mean, you have to kind of work a little secret mission behind the scenes. But yeah, don't, don't tip them off to what you're doing because, you know, it, it could either turn volatile or they're going to start the whole love bombing all over again and pull out all the stops to get you to stay and to convince you to stay. So it's best to just go without a lot of warning.

>> Tiffanie: Right. I know a lot of my guests went like, in the middle of the night or while they were on vacation or at work. And I'm like, that's great if you have those opportunities, but what if he works at home? Or what if, you know, you're sent to the grocery store with only a certain amount of money or he checks your receipts. You know, there's so many different circumstances and so many people have been in such horrible situations, but you've got to try to figure out how to do it little by little.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. And, and you really need somebody's help. You know, I think trying to do it by yourself exclusively is, is near impossible. I mean, you really need to identify at least another person out there who can help you, give you a place to stay. And, and you really need somebody to talk to. You know, I mean, if it's, if it's within your budget to, to find a therapist, it's not always cheap to do that, but a therapist is a great asset to kind of get the ball rolling on your healing. But, you know, even if you just have a couple good friends or a couple family members, it can make a huge difference just to have someone to talk to.

>> Tiffanie: For sure. A lot of times, you know, when we get in that. Because of course, you know, they're going to tell you you're crazy. Like, that's just what happens. So sometimes you start to second guess it, like, m. Am I? So you need someone to validate, somebody who has an open mind who's not just going to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you. But somebody who'd be like, okay, this is a little overboard. Or this is this. Or somebody who can take some of the accountability to help you maneuver to get out. Like you said, either give you a place to stay, maybe if they put a hotel room in their name, stuff like that, just to help you be able to break free.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's not easy, you know, and then in my case, and I think this was very typical, my, ex husband started that smear campaign the minute that, the minute that he realized I wasn't coming back, you know, and they will go to everybody that, you know, and because it's all about preserving their reputation, they have to look like the victim. You know, you've done this horrible thing by walking out on them and, and you know, if, if you're dealing with a covert narcissist, people on the outside probably think that he's a great guy. So they're probably all going to believe him. Anybody outside your home. And that's tough. I mean, it, it does. That gets tough. It's, it's hurtful that happened to me, but, you know, it is one thing to be prepared for. They're probably going to kind of gather up all their little allies the minute they, they realize that you're leaving. So you just, you know, you have to be willing to let that go.

>> Tiffanie: That's a good time to bring out the trusty notebook and be like, oh, yeah, you felt great. A, B, C, D. You know what I mean?

>> Mia Hanks: Yes, yes, definitely, definitely. But, you know, getting people to believe you is, is the, is the hard part. When they've only seen this fantastic husband and father, you know, how could he ever do those things? You know, it is what it is. But, but it is. I, I have found it as hard to get people to, to, to believe your, your case, especially when, like, myself, you know, I'm out there trying to hold him up and, for all these years and, and preserve his, reputation and make him look good. And so, you know, and then I have to go and say, well, actually, he's abusive. It makes, you know, it's challenging because then people are like, well, why did you stay married for 29 years if it was so bad? So I, I, I've definitely had issues with that, with people just not really understanding and, really not believing it. So it's hard, but you get through it.

>> Tiffanie: And if you are that friend and someone is coming to you and they're saying, what's going on? Don't do the coulda, woulda, shouldas. Listen to them, be there for them, believe them. It's important. You might be the only person they have.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah. And I think the other thing to keep in mind is if someone comes to you talking about these things, realize that, you know, first of all, it's really hard to have to admit that you are an abuse victim. I mean, I don't, I don't think people who have not lived this life, they don't understand. It's embarrassing. I was very embarrassed. And there's just some, there's something very shameful about saying, yeah, I allowed this behavior, I allowed this treatment for 29 years. So realize when somebody comes to you and wants to talk to you about this, how difficult that is to admit it and how much shame they're probably feeling. So, I mean, they're not lying. You need to believe them. If they, they probably had to work up a lot of courage to be able to even admit it to you, Right?

>> Tiffanie: It does. Because like you said, you're just like, wow, what did I get myself into? And then I stuck around. So it's so important. You gotta be there for them. So your book Bridemaid, where can people find it if they're interested in reading that?

>> Mia Hanks: It's available online anywhere. Books are sold at, Target, Walmart, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and it's available in paperback and ebook.

>> Tiffanie: Awesome. I'm so happy that you were able to be strong and stand strong and get out. It is so important. And I'm sure you feel much better.

>> Mia Hanks: So much better. I mean, it has been a journey getting out and not easy, but yeah, life is so much better on the other side of divorce.


On the other side of abuse, it's just a calm, simple people

I mean, on the other side of abuse, it, it's just a calm, simple people, take the nap. I feel like I'm out of all of that chaos and stress, and I just feel healthier.

>> Tiffanie: Oh, yeah. like to have your life back, to be able to, like, do what you want to do when you want to do it. It's like you're a teenager again.

>> Mia Hanks: You know, it, it really did feel that way. I, like I say I got into this marriage when I was 21 and. Yeah. Suddenly waking up in the morning and, and, and realizing I can do what I want to do. You know, I don't have to tiptoe around someone. I don't have to answer to someone. It's just this incredible freedom. and it, it's overwhelming at times, but wow, it really feels good.

>> Tiffanie: I can agree. Been there.


If you are in one of these relationships and you want to get out

Was there anything else that you wanted to add?

>> Mia Hanks: If people out there listening. If you are in one of these relationships and you want to get out, you know, my, my message would be, you can do it. It seems daunting. I know that you feel stuck. I felt stuck. And you feel like, oh, I'll never be able to untangle from this. But you absolutely can. And, and you need to for your, for your own health and well being.

>> Tiffanie: Yes. Because the longer you deal with it, you're just making yourself sick. You really are. I can attest for that. I got an autoimmune for dealing with it because all the cortisone. So trust me, it's a thing and you don't want any part of it.

>> Mia Hanks: That's right. It's absolutely right.

>> Tiffanie: It's.

>> Mia Hanks: It's not a healthy environment to be in, and it will lead to things like autoimmune diseases. And I suffered from chronic pain. It's a real thing. It will affect your physical body. Even though it's, you know, if what you're dealing with is the psychological and mental abuse, it still affects you physically and, and it's just no place you want to be.

>> Tiffanie: And those emotional scars, unfortunately, they are a lifetime. Like we will work for the rest of our lives to help reverse those. But then little buggers, they creep back in and they do.

>> Mia Hanks: Yeah.

>> Tiffanie: Those are the things that you carry with for the rest of your life. So the quicker you can get out, you can save yourself a little bit of all the heartache for sure.

>> Mia Hanks: Definitely.


All right, then we. I want to thank you so much for being here

>> Tiffanie: All right, then we. I want to thank you so much for being here. I think this is great. I'm going to have the link in the show notes. So anyone who wants to buy it, they can get it. I'll, I'll put a couple different sources in there, and I guess that would be it.

>> Mia Hanks: well, thank you. Thank you for having me.

>> Tiffanie: Of course. This is important. People need to know this stuff.

>> Mia Hanks: That's right.